6.5 M96 reloading questions/concerns

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ackertjosh

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Bruce County Ontario
Hello everyone!
Well today i was out testing some loads for my 6.5x55 and well i had some great results but dont understand what is happaning with my pressures.

So you know about my rifle first is that is 100 percent matching numbers built in 1900 at the Carl Gustav Factory. I ordered a new barrel for it from Trad ex Canada that is a M38 barrel. 24". Not a concern to me.

Well today well out testing loads i was inspecting each load for pressure signs since i feel im getting to the max the rifle can handle. The loads I tested are

1.. 46gr IMR4831.. Remington Brass, CCI BR2 primer and a 140 gr Hornady Interlock. This load produced Amazing accuracy. 3 shots from 100yrds can be covered with a Penny.
2... 48gr RL22...... Remington Brass, Fed 210 Primer and a 140 gr Hornady SST. This load produced 1 inch accuracy but not any better.

What im confused about is why my #1 load was showing signs of pressure on the primer( flattened primer but not cratered) and why my #2 load is showing no signs of pressure at all.. Also from reading other forms my #2 load should be around the 2800fps mark as for the #1 load should only be around the 26-2700 fps mark. I dont own a Crony yet so its hard to tell what my velocites really are. Im under the understanding that IMR 4831 is a hotter powder than the RL22 but i didnt think the pressure would be that much less.

If anyone has any advice on what could be going on or if all seems normal please let me know.. Im thinking this SST would be a great deer/Moose bullet loaded at the 2800fps mark if thats what im getting. I know its a bit much for Deer but for moose should be quite acceptable.

Thanks again
Josh
 
hummmm
2800 seems little high
when you put them over a chrony it will probably look more around 2500
yet, I had very good results with H4895 and 140 bergerVLD and nosler ballistic tip
best load at 35.5gr gm215m primers (fed) and it pass on the chrony at 2400 fps
5 shots in one inch or less at 150 yards

have you trued your action and properly headspaced the barrel??
 
mmattockx said:
48.0gr of RE-22 with a 140gr bullet is way over book max for the Swede action, just so you know.
Click to expand...

It's over the max load for commercial actions as well according to the Alliant website.

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Other weird part is CCI primers have some of the thickest, toughest primer cups outside of military ammo. Federal has the weakest and most easily flattened.

Primer flattening is not a very good indicator of over pressure when you really think about it. The primer will flatten at X pressure regardless of what the maximum pressure of the cartridge is. To get a primer to flatten in a .45-70 with a max pressure of 28,000psi, most rifles would explode. Yet in a .270 with a max pressure of 65,000psi some primers will flatten well before the max is even reached.

As for velocity the Hodgdon website lists a 47 grain charge of H4831 under a 140gr projectile to be 2586fps. Being at 46 grains you are probably around 2500fps (my guess would be slightly under 2500).
The Alliant website lists the max charge of 40 grains of RL-22 for a Swedish Mauser action to be 2461fps. Even the 45 grain max charge for commercial actions is only listed as 2655fps.
Of course published velocities should always be taken with a grain of salt. Ideal conditions, ultra tight chambers, and perfect bores go a long way to improve things.

As far as I've read Swedish Mauser actions where proof tested at 160% maximum pressure (which is 55,000psi) but 112 years can weaken anything.

Either way I wouldn't worry too much about flattened primers. If you get hard extracts, stiff bolts, or gas leaking around the primers you would definitely have cause for alarm. I would also reduce the RL-22 load if it was my rifle but that's just my opinion.
 
46.7 is about as much as ive used on the older swedes and it was listed as max in my reloading manuals....48 is no problem on a modern action.

Not that 48 will blow up a Swedish Mauser...mine was showing pressure.
 
Thanks guys! I will bring down my load asap. I should probably invest in a Chrony. I did have it properly Head spaced and the whole gun looked over by a very respected gun smith in the Area. Does excellent work and also compitions shoots with 1 him self..

What i found when Testing the Loads with the RL-22 was i started at 46gr then made 3 of each being 47gr and 48gr, so a total of 9. My accuracy was not very impressive. about 2 inch groups till i hit the 48gr. Then they came down to just about 1 inch. im thinking seating depth might be my issue though. Im got them set to a COAL of 2.925(where the chrimp ring is on the bullet)... Thats where i got my accuracy with the Interlocks. maybe if i brought my seating depth out a bit to 3.00 it might improve it. That being said will it affect anything if i dont seat the bullet down to where the crimp ring is?

Thanks again
Josh
 
ackertjosh said:
will it affect anything if i dont seat the bullet down to where the crimp ring is?
Click to expand...

I've done that with some 140gr Interlocks and they worked fine. The Lee factory crimp die can add a bit of tension (not a true crimp) to hold them in better but not as well as if crimped at the cannelure. If you want to find your maximum OAL you can do a trick I read here on CGN.

Close the bolt and drop a dowel rod down from the muzzle end. Mark where the muzzle ends on the rod.
Open the bolt, insert a projectile (no brass) as far into the throat as it will go (without forcing it) and hold it there with a pencil or something.
Put the dowel back into the barrel from the muzzle and mark where the muzzle ends again.
The difference between the marks is your maximum COAL with that specific bullet. Not just that type of bullet but that, singular, exact bullet. Because tips of bullets vary quite a bit this will only work for that bullet.
Now to transfer that to other bullets you just need a caliper with a bullet comparator set or whatnot with a 6.5mm collet.
Seat the measured bullet to the maximum depth you found and take a measurement off of the ogive. This measurement will be true for that model number of projectile since variance in the ogive of quality bullets is very small.

That is only if you want to load right to maximum length. If you are reducing it a bit you can just measure the tip and keep that bullet around (loaded as a dummy I suppose is best) to adjust your seating die.
 
ackertjosh said:
Thanks guys! I will bring down my load asap. I should probably invest in a Chrony. I did have it properly Head spaced and the whole gun looked over by a very respected gun smith in the Area. Does excellent work and also compitions shoots with 1 him self..

What i found when Testing the Loads with the RL-22 was i started at 46gr then made 3 of each being 47gr and 48gr, so a total of 9. My accuracy was not very impressive. about 2 inch groups till i hit the 48gr. Then they came down to just about 1 inch. im thinking seating depth might be my issue though. Im got them set to a COAL of 2.925(where the chrimp ring is on the bullet)... Thats where i got my accuracy with the Interlocks. maybe if i brought my seating depth out a bit to 3.00 it might improve it. That being said will it affect anything if i dont seat the bullet down to where the crimp ring is?

Thanks again
Josh
Click to expand...

You should have no problem going to 3.05 and beyond. Dont' bother crimping.
 
Thanks will do! ill make a couple up at 46.5 gr of RL-22 and send some down range with a longer COAl this weekend.. Since the the rifle and barrel were origanly built to shoot 160gr bullets i was wondering who makes a good 160gr bullet. i seen Hornady Makes some but wondering what other makers do.. maybe berger or something.
Thanks
Josh
 
ackertjosh said:
Thanks will do! ill make a couple up at 46.5 gr of RL-22 and send some down range with a longer COAl this weekend.. Since the the rifle and barrel were origanly built to shoot 160gr bullets i was wondering who makes a good 160gr bullet. i seen Hornady Makes some but wondering what other makers do.. maybe berger or something.
Thanks
Josh
Click to expand...

The Hornady 160 is discontinued but you can find some for sale every once in a while. Lapua and Norma still make a 155 / 156 .

That Rifle should shoot 140's just fine. I was using the 140gr. Sierra Gameking back then it it was 3/4 MOA on a good day .
 
I agree the rifle shoots 140's excellent, i absolutly love the cartridge!. I think its one of the most versatile rounds out there with a huge bullet weight selection. I have never gone below 140 but would deffanitly like to try 120's and also go above the 140 mark to 160 just to see what the cartiridge can really do. I give all my respect to this round and those who also love it. If i could i would love to get a great round for this rifle and go to a couple shoots in the area and see how it can perform with others in the same group.
Josh
 
ackertjosh said:
I agree the rifle shoots 140's excellent, i absolutly love the cartridge!. I think its one of the most versatile rounds out there with a huge bullet weight selection. I have never gone below 140 but would deffanitly like to try 120's and also go above the 140 mark to 160 just to see what the cartiridge can really do. I give all my respect to this round and those who also love it. If i could i would love to get a great round for this rifle and go to a couple shoots in the area and see how it can perform with others in the same group.
Josh
Click to expand...

It is fun to experiment..get your hands on the bullet weights you want to try....for me this cartridge shines at 139 above but that does not stop me from plinking with Sierra 85 HP's once in a while which also shoot well. As far as heavy bullets go, the Lapua 155gr. shoots as well as the 140's for me. it would be my choice for Eastern Canada Moose Woods hunting. The 140gr. Nosler Partition is just about the perfect once bullet solution in this cartridge (in my opinion).
 
Got to dissagree with people going on about 48.0 gr of RL-22 being too much for the swede.

48.0 gr of RL-22 and 140's is right out of one of my reloading manuals, and the test rifle is a swede M38. Can't remember which manual off the top of my head.

There are also lots of fellows, myself included, who have been using this exact load for years in various swedes without problems.

Out of a full length 96, velocity should be right around 2800+ fps, based on my chronied loads with SST's. I'm guessing around 2600 from 24" bbl.
 
Northman999 said:
Got to dissagree with people going on about 48.0 gr of RL-22 being too much for the swede.

48.0 gr of RL-22 and 140's is right out of one of my reloading manuals, and the test rifle is a swede M38. Can't remember which manual off the top of my head.

There are also lots of fellows, myself included, who have been using this exact load for years in various swedes without problems.

Out of a full length 96, velocity should be right around 2800+ fps, based on my chronied loads with SST's. I'm guessing around 2600 from 24" bbl.
Click to expand...


Im basing myself on the manuals I own and rifle I worked up a load in. btw 46.7 gave me 2650 fps in a 24"
 
Northman999 said:
Got to dissagree with people going on about 48.0 gr of RL-22 being too much for the swede.

48.0 gr of RL-22 and 140's is right out of one of my reloading manuals, and the test rifle is a swede M38. Can't remember which manual off the top of my head.

There are also lots of fellows, myself included, who have been using this exact load for years in various swedes without problems.

Out of a full length 96, velocity should be right around 2800+ fps, based on my chronied loads with SST's. I'm guessing around 2600 from 24" bbl.
Click to expand...

I would be curious to know which manual that is from, if you could track it down. The Alliant site gives a max load of RL-22 with a 140gr bullet of 40.0gr for the military action and 45.0gr for commercial actions. Hornady doesn't list RL-22 for the Swede (with 140gr bullets), but they do give a max load of 46.6gr of RL-22 with a 140gr bullet for the 260 Remington, which is very similar in case capacity to the Swede and operates at ~13% higher pressures.


Mark
 
No i have not tryed RL-19 but also have herd alot of good things about it and the RL-22. I would love to get some 140gr Partitions down the tube and possibly turn them into mine and my fathers hunting round. But i was just thinking a 155 or 160 might bust through the brush easier but i very well could be wrong.. If i could i would shoot this round day in and out. but unfortanitly i got to make money to pay bills lol.
 
mmattockx said:
I would be curious to know which manual that is from, if you could track it down. The Alliant site gives a max load of RL-22 with a 140gr bullet of 40.0gr for the military action and 45.0gr for commercial actions. Hornady doesn't list RL-22 for the Swede (with 140gr bullets), but they do give a max load of 46.6gr of RL-22 with a 140gr bullet for the 260 Remington, which is very similar in case capacity to the Swede and operates at ~13% higher pressures.


Mark
Click to expand...

I believe that data although im sure its an older manual..when the lawyers were not so involved. My data is from Sierra and Nosler , fairly recent.
 
Lee manual also shows 48.1gr RE22 with 140gr jacketed bullet as max, for 44 000 CUP. Thats should be safe in the Swede. I have found 46gr gives superb accuracy and about 2530fps ave in the Tikka 22.5".

Some manuals loads for the 6.5 are incredibly anemic (e.g. Hornady, and Barnes no4 isnt much better with a max load of 46gr RE22 with a 120gr TSX), probably in deference not to Swede 96's but to old Krag-Jorgensons. I would be cautious with older M96 but most manuals' data caters for them, unless explicitly stated.
 
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