6.5 M96 reloading questions/concerns

[vviking]

Vviking will be around any minute...

You should have no problem going to 3.05 and beyond. Dont' bother crimping.

Got to dissagree with people going on about 48.0 gr of RL-22 being too much for the swede.

48.0 gr of RL-22 and 140's is right out of one of my reloading manuals, and the test rifle is a swede M38. Can't remember which manual off the top of my head.

There are also lots of fellows, myself included, who have been using this exact load for years in various swedes without problems.

Out of a full length 96, velocity should be right around 2800+ fps, based on my chronied loads with SST's. I'm guessing around 2600 from 24" bbl.

Lee manual also shows 48.1gr RE22 with 140gr jacketed bullet as max, for 44 000 CUP. Thats should be safe in the Swede. I have found 46gr gives superb accuracy and about 2530fps ave in the Tikka 22.5".

Some manuals loads for the 6.5 are incredibly anemic (e.g. Hornady, and Barnes no4 isnt much better with a max load of 46gr RE22 with a 120gr TSX), probably in deference not to Swede 96's but to old Krag-Jorgensons. I would be cautious with older M96 but most manuals' data caters for them, unless explicitly stated.

Can't believe I missed a 6.5x55 thread!. Been away for a bit.

The M38 chambers have a shorter throat than M96's do. They were spec'd for 139 spitzer ball, the M96 for 156 RN ball. They are far and away my favorites(got me 7 new ones, 4 of 'em are up and shooting), $100 bargoons!. Long shanked 139/140 bullets can be seated to jam, and mag feed, and also seat deeply enough in the neck for strong, straight, loaded cartridges.

OP's pressure question may be due to seating into the lands, jamming, which does raise the PSI's noticably, as vs. even a small jump to the lands. 10 thou. +-, can make a difference when you get to just touching.

I prefer Horn. 140 Amax for pure accuracy, Horn. 140SP for all hunting/GP blasting of whatever.
Both bullets have very long shanks. Amax typically shoots into 1/2 MOA, SP averages 3/4 MOA. In calm air. Tuned rifle, 10x scope.
They get seated anywhere from 15 off to 15 in (jam), as to the individual rifle's load preference. Works every time.
These long bullets want to be seated very straight, especially if you jump. Any more than 3 thou. TIR opens groups and sends 'fliers', IME.
My loads avg. 1/2 to 1 thou. TIR. Lapua cases. Lee collet neck die and Redding BR seater = straight ammo.

Something to remember of this cal., is it's uncanny ability to stay tight to way, way, out there. I don't test any closer than 200 yards, theres no point, as group sizes are about the same as 100yd.!. The long bullets in that fast twist barrel need a bit of flying time to "go to sleep".

Re; Powder.
Swede mil. bores tend to run a bit larger than commercial 6.5mm barrels. The tightest I've ever slugged was a 1899 German made M96 ... it went .2645", and would not tolerate 140/48gr.R22(it max'd out at 46.5). The largest, an 'experienced' CG M96 slugged .267", it was quite comfortable at 140/49/R22. The M38's I've measured(7)hover right at .265". That may explain how these mil. rifles are sometimes not running too hot with a powder charge that is considered(lawyer)modern book max, for a modern superstrong .264" Tika.
Be carefull though, I could be a drooling 'ol codger, and full 'o shyte. Slug your bore. They are all over the map.

If you want my load's specifics ... PM.

 

[mmattockx]

The M38 chambers have a shorter throat than M96's do.

That is something I didn't know, I have an M38 but have not tried loading anything for it yet. I will have to make up a test round and see where the lands are sitting and then see what she will do with some 140gr Amax's.


Mark

 

[vviking]

That is something I didn't know, I have an M38 but have not tried loading anything for it yet. I will have to make up a test round and see where the lands are sitting and then see what she will do with some 140gr Amax's.


Mark

Let us know how it goes.

The Amax seems to like .015" jam, most times. It will happily jump too, it's not a fussy bullet.
Thats where I start, ... find the R22 powder charge appropriate to jamming, at 2700 fps(23.5") or thereabout's, then move off in 5 thou. increments if she doesn't bughole right out of the gate.

 

[Pathfinder]

Can't believe I missed a 6.5x55 thread!. Been away for a bit.

The M38 chambers have a shorter throat than M96's do. They were spec'd for 139 spitzer ball, the M96 for 156 RN ball. They are far and away my favorites(got me 7 new ones, 4 of 'em are up and shooting), $100 bargoons!. Long shanked 139/140 bullets can be seated to jam, and mag feed, and also seat deeply enough in the neck for strong, straight, loaded cartridges.

OP's pressure question may be due to seating into the lands, jamming, which does raise the PSI's noticably, as vs. even a small jump to the lands. 10 thou. +-, can make a difference when you get to just touching.

I prefer Horn. 140 Amax for pure accuracy, Horn. 140SP for all hunting/GP blasting of whatever.
Both bullets have very long shanks. Amax typically shoots into 1/2 MOA, SP averages 3/4 MOA. In calm air. Tuned rifle, 10x scope.
They get seated anywhere from 15 off to 15 in (jam), as to the individual rifle's load preference. Works every time.
These long bullets want to be seated very straight, especially if you jump. Any more than 3 thou. TIR opens groups and sends 'fliers', IME.
My loads avg. 1/2 to 1 thou. TIR. Lapua cases. Lee collet neck die and Redding BR seater = straight ammo.

Something to remember of this cal., is it's uncanny ability to stay tight to way, way, out there. I don't test any closer than 200 yards, theres no point, as group sizes are about the same as 100yd.!. The long bullets in that fast twist barrel need a bit of flying time to "go to sleep".

Re; Powder.
Swede mil. bores tend to run a bit larger than commercial 6.5mm barrels. The tightest I've ever slugged was a 1899 German made M96 ... it went .2645", and would not tolerate 140/48gr.R22(it max'd out at 46.5). The largest, an 'experienced' CG M96 slugged .267", it was quite comfortable at 140/49/R22. The M38's I've measured(7)hover right at .265". That may explain how these mil. rifles are sometimes not running too hot with a powder charge that is considered(lawyer)modern book max, for a modern superstrong .264" Tika.
Be carefull though, I could be a drooling 'ol codger, and full 'o shyte. Slug your bore. They are all over the map.

If you want my load's specifics ... PM.

thanks for that V !

My 96 Had a tight pipe for sure....My Tikka didnt' show any signs at 48.5 and didnt' go any higher since the groups were not any better. Im sure she would digest 49 but im not sure the primer pockets would stay tight for very long.

 

[Dunk]

Thanks vviking.A lot of good info here!

 

[ackertjosh]

Thanks Viking!!! You sure seem to know your way around these ol gems.

 

[kayaker1]

The M38 chambers have a shorter throat than M96's do. They were spec'd for 139 spitzer ball, the M96 for 156 RN ball. They are far and away my favorites(got me 7 new ones, 4 of 'em are up and shooting), $100 bargoons!. Long shanked 139/140 bullets can be seated to jam, and mag feed, and also seat deeply enough in the neck for strong, straight, loaded cartridges.

Thanks (again) vviking for the info!

 

[vviking]

Thanks for the kind words gent's.
The 6.5mm affair started off way back in the early 70's. Chemistry was intense from first trigger tickle. All these years later, we still boogee.
Funny, I own commercial rifles in many other cals, but 6.5x55's ? .... only ever mil. Swede's ... lost count of how many over the years, ... All mil. never a single comm. x55.
The first one that I ever sported/tuned is still to this day my main squeeze. 1913 CG. Taught me all I've ever learned about how to shoot LR(with profound mediocrity, lol).
Barrel life is good, about 2500-3000 rounds before the gilt edge accuracy starts to fall off. As some of you have mentioned here, even questionable/worn/pitted bores often stay MOA accurate ... and heaven only knows how many times they've spit out a bullet!. Or been properly cleaned.

By contrast, the 6.5/06?, it was all done in at 1000rnds.

Re; cleaning.
None of my 6.5 mil. barrels do their best with more than 50 down the hole between agressive cleanings. They all copper foul, to differing degrees. The Amax bullet mic's .2645", and is the fattest of 'em all, whereas even a tight mil. bore is often a thou. + over that. The cartridge is not particularly high pressure, full obturation to seal the bore not common. Bullets recovered undamaged from soft snowbanks tell the tale. Hot gasses jet past the bullet shank .... thats where the copper fouling comes from, IMO. Barnes CR10 and/or, JB Bore paste, or both, make short work of cleaning chores tho.

Worst offender in the older, much fired bores is the "carbon ring" immediatly in front of the chamber.
Nephew showed up one time with a 1899 DWM Swede. 29" barrel, sported. Out we go with some soft start loads(44/R22/140SP/.100" jump). ... Way over pressure!!, Hard bolt lift, totally flat, cratered primer, shiny ejector mark on the case head, 1/2 thou.+ case head expansion with best Lapua brass, primer pocket totally pooched. .... Whaaa happened?????? ..... CARBON RING, thats what.
Turns out, the bore was constricted maybe 3 thou. or more.
Took forever to remove it, days hard at it with brake cleaner and everthing else, in rotation.
The upshot?.
Nowadays, this same bore holds to 5/8 MOA with 47.5 R22/140 Amax. No pressure signs whatsoever.

I could go on, but "hijack" is not far off, eh?.