6.5 x 47 Lapua
- Thread starter M Hamlyn
- Start date
Hmm, wonder if I can use this for my 6x47. Interesting. - dan
I wrote a report on the recent SHOT show
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=504465#post504465
I briefly mentioned this cartridge.
<Lapua (www.lapua.com ) has a new one also, the 6.5 x 47mm Lapua. It should be available about mid 2006. This is a rimless round, with the same head diameter as the .308 family, and roughly the same overall length, so it can easily be chambered in current models of rifles without changing action length. It runs at higher pressures than other rounds, up to 63,000 psi. It launches a 108 grain bullet at a listed 3084 fps. It is marketed at “serious long range target shooting”. >
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=504465#post504465
I briefly mentioned this cartridge.
<Lapua (www.lapua.com ) has a new one also, the 6.5 x 47mm Lapua. It should be available about mid 2006. This is a rimless round, with the same head diameter as the .308 family, and roughly the same overall length, so it can easily be chambered in current models of rifles without changing action length. It runs at higher pressures than other rounds, up to 63,000 psi. It launches a 108 grain bullet at a listed 3084 fps. It is marketed at “serious long range target shooting”. >
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
This is getting ahead of the game, but I've already decided to build a rifle in this caliber. Actually, rebarrel one of my traget rifles to it rather, can't wait... I'll report with performance.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
it is about time a brass manf stepped up and started making brass that can handle the higher pressures BR shooters use. The 6XC was kind of the first but in limited availability.
The only downside I see is that the case is smaller then I expected. This will limit performance with the 142 and heavier 6.5 bullets to come.
The 6.5-284 is too big. We know that but if someone comes out with high BC 149 to 160gr bullets, it will work just fine.
Surprised that Lapua would target the 123gr bullet. I don't see much talk about this bullet used in 1000yd BR. Certainly wouldn't be my first choice. However, a 123gr 6mm would be very very interesting in this case.
Oh well, I need to get my butt in gear and get my 6.5 Mystic making noise. My version of the better mouse trap.
Now to find some small primer 308BR brass....
Jerry
The only downside I see is that the case is smaller then I expected. This will limit performance with the 142 and heavier 6.5 bullets to come.
The 6.5-284 is too big. We know that but if someone comes out with high BC 149 to 160gr bullets, it will work just fine.
Surprised that Lapua would target the 123gr bullet. I don't see much talk about this bullet used in 1000yd BR. Certainly wouldn't be my first choice. However, a 123gr 6mm would be very very interesting in this case.
Oh well, I need to get my butt in gear and get my 6.5 Mystic making noise. My version of the better mouse trap.
Now to find some small primer 308BR brass....
Jerry
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Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yep, it's nice for a change to see these pressures in the design parameters. I think the reason they settled on the 123gr 6.5 has to due with finding an optimal bore/case capacity ratio, and with the case capacity 140gr class projos were out of the picture when compared to 123's with the case ballistically. A lot of math went into this case, and it's looking pretty good. 6.5 means slightly more velocity from the same powder charge vs a 6mm offering, I do believe a 123gr 6.5 will edge out a lighter 115gr 6mm in this case due to basal diameter and hydraulics. And since the 123gr Scenar has a BC of .547, even the 115gr 6mm's gain little there. So all in all you get a bit more velocity for a given pressure with the 6.5, and this was their consideration. The 6mm version of this has been around for a little while in essance as the 6X47 Swiss Match, and to a lesser extent but a similar cartridge the 6XC.
But let's not forget one of the biggest reasons for Lapua building the case around the 123gr Scenar
; they make the only really accessible and suitable bullet for the case Boosts them in the LR world.
But let's not forget one of the biggest reasons for Lapua building the case around the 123gr Scenar
; they make the only really accessible and suitable bullet for the case Boosts them in the LR world.
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Thanks for the info, now I have to buy another barrel, dammit. - dan
We have the CIP chamber specs saved as a PDF file, should anyone wish to have this.
peterdobson@eastlink.ca
peterdobson@eastlink.ca
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Ardent, the ballistics of the 123gr 6.5 may indeed to better then some 115gr 6mm now in service, BUT it doesn't exceed the commonly used 140gr class 6.5's.
I guess it really boils down to the discipline shot. For moderate ranges (800yds and in) and the need for light recoil, the 123gr is not bad. However, most will not find a 140gr bullet recoil all that bad in most 12 to 20lbs rifles. And the reduced wind drift at 1000m is substantial, especially when going over 2900fps.
So I am still very surprised at this direction. I guess there is a lot more shooting at 600 to 800yds and closer then at 1000yds/m. But for these reduced distances, the 6BR and family are dominant. The 6.5X47 would be the barrel burner/hard kicker in this application.
I have seen ballistic data collected through shooting that place the 115gr DTAC bullet at or over 0.600 (not sure what G curve though). So the 6mm is quickly meeting the challenge of even the 142gr MK (was downgraded in BC last season).
We now have Berger, Wildcat and other makers jumping on the 6mm VLD development. Will not be long before a viable 120 to 129gr 6mm is designed. These bullets will meet or exceed the present 6.5 family of bullets.
Surprised, was not announced at SHOT. At that point, the best combo of ballistics and recoil will go to the 6mm. That best case might just be the 6.5X47 IF it is less expensive then the Norma based 6XC.
Again, would the case capacity prove a little too small even at elevated pressures?
Like the 284Win becoming dead but who's offspring has gone on to bigger and better things, I too think the 6.5X47 Lapua will quickly fade from LR use but as a parent case for a 6mm version will be very strong indeed.
Corporate thinking is always so bizarre....
Jerry
I guess it really boils down to the discipline shot. For moderate ranges (800yds and in) and the need for light recoil, the 123gr is not bad. However, most will not find a 140gr bullet recoil all that bad in most 12 to 20lbs rifles. And the reduced wind drift at 1000m is substantial, especially when going over 2900fps.
So I am still very surprised at this direction. I guess there is a lot more shooting at 600 to 800yds and closer then at 1000yds/m. But for these reduced distances, the 6BR and family are dominant. The 6.5X47 would be the barrel burner/hard kicker in this application.
I have seen ballistic data collected through shooting that place the 115gr DTAC bullet at or over 0.600 (not sure what G curve though). So the 6mm is quickly meeting the challenge of even the 142gr MK (was downgraded in BC last season).
We now have Berger, Wildcat and other makers jumping on the 6mm VLD development. Will not be long before a viable 120 to 129gr 6mm is designed. These bullets will meet or exceed the present 6.5 family of bullets.
Surprised, was not announced at SHOT. At that point, the best combo of ballistics and recoil will go to the 6mm. That best case might just be the 6.5X47 IF it is less expensive then the Norma based 6XC.
Again, would the case capacity prove a little too small even at elevated pressures?
Like the 284Win becoming dead but who's offspring has gone on to bigger and better things, I too think the 6.5X47 Lapua will quickly fade from LR use but as a parent case for a 6mm version will be very strong indeed.
Corporate thinking is always so bizarre....
Jerry
Terry Perkins
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Bruce County
Considering that this cartridge is taking a back seat to the 6.5x284 in terms of velocity, what is the expected accuracy life of the 6.5x47 barrel? I consider accuracy life to be 0.5 MOA when it comes to LR shooting. I've experienced about 1100 rounds with H4350 in 6.5x284. H4831 proved to be less daunting on the throat, but now I'm gonna try N165. So, is the 6.5x47 significantly better? Anyone?
later,
Terry Perkins
later,
Terry Perkins
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
With 140gr VLD bullets, I would expect this case to go 2700 to 2800fps in longish barrels. Essenetially, the same as a 260Rem but in a smaller case, run at higher pressure. I am sure we will see hero loads 'safely' fired in BR rifles that approach 2900fps. All I can say is Lapua's liability stopped at 63000psi...so did the action manufacturer.
If throat life for the 6.5-284 is estimated at 1000 to 1200rds, the 6.5X47 should reach 1500 to 2000rds. I expect my 6.5 Mystic to be very similar and go at least 1500rds but up to 250fps faster.
It is interesting the use of a small rifle primer. There were many wildcats based on the 308BR case necked down to 22 (Cheetah was one). One of the most common problems was irratic ignition. The full size 308 case is a bit too big for a small rifle primer. At least with powders of that era.
Will be very interesting to see how the slightly smaller but improved Lapua case will fare. 40 to 43gr of powder should fit and is quite a lot of powder for the SR primer to ignite. Time will tell how it fares with the newer extruded powders.
One thing that no one has mentioned, the good old fashion 308 case is plenty strong for trips into the same pressure levels. Many abandoned the 260 in favor of the 260AI/6.5X55/284 due to limited case capacity.
So, is the smaller case really an improvement??????
Maybe the 6X47 would seem a little too copy catlike.
Jerry
If throat life for the 6.5-284 is estimated at 1000 to 1200rds, the 6.5X47 should reach 1500 to 2000rds. I expect my 6.5 Mystic to be very similar and go at least 1500rds but up to 250fps faster.
It is interesting the use of a small rifle primer. There were many wildcats based on the 308BR case necked down to 22 (Cheetah was one). One of the most common problems was irratic ignition. The full size 308 case is a bit too big for a small rifle primer. At least with powders of that era.
Will be very interesting to see how the slightly smaller but improved Lapua case will fare. 40 to 43gr of powder should fit and is quite a lot of powder for the SR primer to ignite. Time will tell how it fares with the newer extruded powders.
One thing that no one has mentioned, the good old fashion 308 case is plenty strong for trips into the same pressure levels. Many abandoned the 260 in favor of the 260AI/6.5X55/284 due to limited case capacity.
So, is the smaller case really an improvement??????
Maybe the 6X47 would seem a little too copy catlike.
Jerry
Peter are you positive of that? I know that it was said that the case was going to have a large primer pocket but I thought Lapua went back to the drawing board and opted for a small primer pocket again?
Lapua 6.5x47 Brass
Erkki Seikkula, Lapua's Export Coordinator, and two of Lapua's design engineers, were on hand. The big news from Lapua (and much anticipated by AccurateShooter.com readers), was the new 6.5x47 brass. I received some pre-production samples of the 6.5x47 late last year. In November I was told a "final" decision had been made to produce the brass with large flash holes and large primer pockets. I conveyed to Erkki that many Americans would be running the cases at pretty high pressures (62,000 psi+) and that many of us had a preference for small flash holes, as found in the 6mm BR and 220 Russian cases. Well, the folks at Lapua apparently were listening, and they continued to test, using both large and small primers. The latest word is that the 6.5x47 will feature a small flash-hole with small rifle primer pocket. And, to our surprise, the cartridge is rated to 63,090 psi (4350 bar). This, then, is truly a "Big BR" case. see link at http://www.6mmbr.com/shotshow2006.html
Lapua 6.5x47 Brass
Erkki Seikkula, Lapua's Export Coordinator, and two of Lapua's design engineers, were on hand. The big news from Lapua (and much anticipated by AccurateShooter.com readers), was the new 6.5x47 brass. I received some pre-production samples of the 6.5x47 late last year. In November I was told a "final" decision had been made to produce the brass with large flash holes and large primer pockets. I conveyed to Erkki that many Americans would be running the cases at pretty high pressures (62,000 psi+) and that many of us had a preference for small flash holes, as found in the 6mm BR and 220 Russian cases. Well, the folks at Lapua apparently were listening, and they continued to test, using both large and small primers. The latest word is that the 6.5x47 will feature a small flash-hole with small rifle primer pocket. And, to our surprise, the cartridge is rated to 63,090 psi (4350 bar). This, then, is truly a "Big BR" case. see link at http://www.6mmbr.com/shotshow2006.html
