6.5x47 lapua

Fastestmanalive said:
Sorting brass by weight will not help getting 1x fired to Lapua's SD's. Proven many times by experimentation that weight is not a reliable method for internal volume measurement. You would still have more variation of the h20 volume with mixed headstamp 1x fired that same batch Lapua's (or any premium brass)
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I never said to mix head stamps. You can buy bulk 1x brass with the same head stamp.
 
Maple57 said:
Salt bath annealing is good... and cheap.

Why some people think something is better just because they paid more is often a mystery.

There's a case study on a floundering company that made the best horse blankets anywhere and sold them at a low price. They almost went out of business. Eventually they increased the price to be double the cost of any competitor and then sold twice as many blankets, but now with a high profit margin. Same blanket but at a high price then customers respected the product.

Not to say Lapua is not top grade stuff... it is... no question.

But spending big money on brass guarantees nothing... especially if you have a custom chamber. If you have a sloppy neck, thick neck Lapua brass can help. Conversely a tighter neck in the chamber can provide good results with slightly neck turned Privi.

One could also argue that Lapua brass is heavy so that means the volume inside the case is smaller than lighter Winchester brass... Therefore Winchester brass can hit higher safe velocities than possible with Lapua.

It also depends on the game you play...

PRS where we feed from a mag and loose a lot of brass or single shot F Class... Different motivation

I've found that in shooting especially, people are often guilty of cognitive bias and need to zoom out and consider a wider range of contributing factors to how and why a rifle shoots well or badly.

It's never just thing you want to pay attention to.

Think about root cause analysis and the five why's. Why did that happen.. then why that until you get to the root. Then there's the four M's of root cause analysis... Man, Method, Machine and Materials... and then in shooting, there's environmentals to consider.

And then there's the law of diminishing returns... even if it is better... is it that much better to justify the higher price? It's up to each of us to decide.

As for the accuracy that is supposedly attributed to small primers... we need to consider exactly how that accuracy is actually derived... small primers don't just magically close groups... They would only do so by reducing the velocity spread, if they actually do. You can test for this over a chronograph and confirm or disprove the marketing hype through your own chronograph testing, and comparing small primer brass to large primer brass in the same rifle over a chronograph.

Work up loads for both and compare, and do that over a wide temperature range and then get back to us with your findings. I already did it, many times, hence my opinion on the subject.

It is quite common for hand loaders to hit single digit SDs with large primers, so honestly... how much better do you expect a small primer to get your velocity spread?
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More often than not you het what you pay for, so the more expensive product is almost always better.

Same thing with lapua brass, sure it costs more money but It is amongst the best if not they best. There is no arguing this. It has been proven time and time again so your kinda just talking around in circles.

Salt bath annealing still sucks, you will never get the timing perfect, there will always be cases that have gotten hotter further down the neck/shoulder than others. Way to much room for human error.
 
BACK TO THE ORIGNAL QUESTION:
I shot the 6x47 lapua, used lapua brass. Winchester 22-250 and lapua, rem & win 243 Brass.
I found the small primer even 450 CCI caused a delay in ignition the odd time. With large primer no issues with ignition and accuracy was as good as sp.
 
b72471 said:
BACK TO THE ORIGNAL QUESTION:
I shot the 6x47 lapua, used lapua brass. Winchester 22-250 and lapua, rem & win 243 Brass.
I found the small primer even 450 CCI caused a delay in ignition the odd time. With large primer no issues with ignition and accuracy was as good as sp.
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How can you tell there is a delay in ignition? Chronograph?
 
b72471 said:
BACK TO THE ORIGNAL QUESTION:
I shot the 6x47 lapua, used lapua brass. Winchester 22-250 and lapua, rem & win 243 Brass.
I found the small primer even 450 CCI caused a delay in ignition the odd time. With large primer no issues with ignition and accuracy was as good as sp.
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This is consistent with my own experience as well as two other guys I know that shoot the 6x47 and 6.5x47

If you've ever fired a muzzle loader there is a detectable delay between the click and the bang, it's like that.

If you the shooter can sense it, there is no way the ignition is reliable.

Even if you cant detect a hangfire, the velocity will not be consistent within a group on a given day and can vary even more from one day to the next.

Run that stuff over a chronograph and the results are obvious and spending big bucks on Lapua brass does not change that if the fundamental ignition system is inadequate.

It would be real nice if Lapua offered 6.5x47 brass with large primers as well.
 
I’ve been running my 6.5 Creedmoor with Lapua small primer. Shot it all last winter in some pretty cool weather with no noticeable ignition problems. Running a fairly full case of H4350. Are some powders more sensitive to this?
 
Same - put thru close to 15lbs of powder thru my x47 and 4lbs thru my creed - all SRP... never had an issue.
Thats with Varget and H4350
 
Hang fires due to primer size? Extremely rare I would expect ... Obviously Lapua had no problem when they developed this extremely accurate round.
 
I have a pretty hard time believing that anyone can feel a delayed ignition lol. In fact I don't believe it. If there is enough delay that a person could ever feel it than something else is seriously wrong.

Pretty sure the experts that developed the 6.5x47 lapua are know more about cartridge design than 99.9% of the CGN experts lol

If there was any sort of issue what so ever with the small primers they would have went to large primers a long time ago.


It's been used successfully for 14 years now
 
guntech said:
Hang fires due to primer size? Extremely rare I would expect ... Obviously Lapua had no problem when they developed this extremely accurate round.
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Yeah I am a bit confused by the post myself , that is why I could only think of hangfires cause but improperly seated or bad primers .
I have shot my 6.6 Creedmoor with Lapua brass in -35c to 500 meters up here with no issues !:)
Cat
 
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I’ve never had a hang/misfire in either of my 6.5x47’s. CCI 450 primer in both. I also shoot in winter at -20 or colder.
 
Could be some of us are just more perceptive than others or perhaps hangfires don't happen to every rifle... but I doubt that. But ya... I could not help but notice the hang fires. No super power here.

To you defender of the "all is well" with small primers school...

Have you actually chronographed your velocities in cold weather and compared to chronograph results in hot weather?

Or, have you just not noticed the problem because you are not looking close enough? I can answer this one for you... Ya... you are not doing your homework before tapping the keys to defend what you don't want to believe.

My guess is that you shoot mostly at 100 yards and would not notice the velocity spread manifest in terms of vertical spread at long range.
 
Maple57 said:
Could be some of us are just more perceptive than others or perhaps hangfires don't happen to every rifle... but I doubt that. But ya... I could not help but notice the hang fires. No super power here.

To you defender of the "all is well" with small primers school...

Have you actually chronographed your velocities in cold weather and compared to chronograph results in hot weather?

Or, have you just not noticed the problem because you are not looking close enough? I can answer this one for you... Ya... you are not doing your homework before tapping the keys to defend what you don't want to believe.

My guess is that you shoot mostly at 100 yards and would not notice the velocity spread manifest in terms of vertical spread at long range.
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That's why one would run a large primer 308 in the winter and a small primer 6.5 in the summer
 
Maple57 said:
Could be some of us are just more perceptive than others or perhaps hangfires don't happen to every rifle... but I doubt that. But ya... I could not help but notice the hang fires. No super power here.

To you defender of the "all is well" with small primers school...

Have you actually chronographed your velocities in cold weather and compared to chronograph results in hot weather?

Or, have you just not noticed the problem because you are not looking close enough? I can answer this one for you... Ya... you are not doing your homework before tapping the keys to defend what you don't want to believe.

My guess is that you shoot mostly at 100 yards and would not notice the velocity spread manifest in terms of vertical spread at long range.
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To me a hang fire is noticeable to the ears and in the firing of the rifle, not with a chronograph only .
If there is a perceptible velocity spread but no noticeable ignition problem too thee ear then that is not a hang fire.
In the middle of the winter at 300 meters a small velocity spread is thee least of my worries, my form is thee most important thing when it comes to accuracy.
I doubt very much if there is a person alive that can detect 200 FPS difference with their hearing, I know I can’t and am at the moment struggling with bigger shooting issues than that!:p

Cat
 
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iron cat said:
To me a hang fire is noticeable to the ears and in the firing of the rifle, not with a chronograph only .
If there is a perceptible velocity spread but no noticeable ignition problem too thee ear then that is not a hang fire.
In the middle of the winter at 300 meters a small velocity spread is thee least of my worries, my form is thee most important thing when it comes to accuracy.
I doubt very much if there is a person alive that can detect 200 FPS difference with their hearing.

Cat
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Now there it is... Bad as it may be, it is within your acceptable performance expectations at short range... it takes a significant velocity spread to appear problematic at only 300 yards, but it would hang you at 600 to 1000 on a 1/2 minute V Bull.

Important to note that a chronograpgh cannot detect a hang fire... it only displays the speed of the bullet.

The hang fire is detectable only to the shooter or possibly a bystander who is close enough to hear the hammer drop before the shot goes off.

Clearly you are misunderstanding points made to think the shooter is audibly detecting velocity spread or that the chronograpgh detects hang fires.

But I can assure you that if the shooter is detecting hang fires, it is fair to assume velocity spread is never good.
 
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I am not misunderstanding anything, I know exactly what a hang fire is and have experienced it in traditional muzzle loaders as well as long range blacxk powder cartridge rifles, shotguns and smokeless rifles.
I have not however experienced it with my SRP Lapua brass and no , hang fires are NOT acceptable to me at any distance!
Cat
 
Anyone who says they are fast enough to hear a delayed ignition in a ceneterfire cartridge do to small rifle primer VS large rifle primer is completely full of BS lol

That or they really need to get there eyes and ears checked by a professional.
 
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