6.5x47 Lapua
- Thread starter timoram
- Start date
- Location
- Virden, MB
6.5x47l is not a 6mm. I assume you know that I just found your question weird. Anyways, I don't shoot a 6.5x47l but I know a few that do and every seems to really like it.
It is a matter of personal preference. Depending on what you were planning to do with the rifle and how much you want to spend to feed it.
The Berger 6.5 140 g Match Target VLD have a BC of .612 which is awesome so yea, it would be pretty flat. A .260 or .260Ai would be cool too.
Again, a matter of preference. The pros to the 6.5x47l is you could get lapua brass that didn't need to be neck sized or fire-formed.
As I understand it the 260 has a bit more power behind it.
It is a matter of personal preference. Depending on what you were planning to do with the rifle and how much you want to spend to feed it.
The Berger 6.5 140 g Match Target VLD have a BC of .612 which is awesome so yea, it would be pretty flat. A .260 or .260Ai would be cool too.
Again, a matter of preference. The pros to the 6.5x47l is you could get lapua brass that didn't need to be neck sized or fire-formed.
As I understand it the 260 has a bit more power behind it.
Both guys who won the Wholesale Sports Shoot, were using that caliber. In rifles that cost more than my car
- Location
- Virden, MB
Both guys who won the Wholesale Sports Shoot, were using that caliber. In rifles that cost more than my car
At 200 yards the caliber doesn't matter much. They had custom built PGWs with a pile of AI mags.
They won because they has accurate, fast loading bolt action rifles and got to run the course the night before and nobody else got too.
/rant
2nd place went to a couple young guys with a bolt action 204 and a mini-14 so it doesn't really say much.
I have a 6x47 Lapua and can pass along any detail you would like. I have done extensive testing and am on my second 6x47 barrel now.
Bottom line is the small primer is a problem if you intend to shoot the heavy bullets like 105 to 115s. The powder burn rate for bullets of these weights is too slow for small primers despite your best efforts. You will experience a delay between the hammer drop and the bang much like a muzzle loader and velocity will not be stable from day to day as slight temperature changes.
I got around this problem by using 6XC brass from David Tubb because it uses a large primer. Once I did this the velocity evened right out and SDs were very low single digits with no hangfire.
The 6XC brass is about .050" too long in the shoulder and needs to be resized to 6x47 length. Which can be done without any significant effort, then OAL needs to be shaved back about the same amount.
After all that work hardening you should then aneal the brass.
Problem is... why bother? You are simply better off with the 6XC in the first place that way you dont need to deal with the above.
Guys have argued the small primer point with me because it works for the 6.5x47. All I can say to that is the larger 6.5 hole allows the use of faster powders that are within the performance threshold of small primers.
As far as my overall satisfaction with the round... I think this (meaning 6XC and 6x47 with 6XC brass) is one of the best rounds going for medium range target shooting and certainly game animals up to deer size and varmints. The recoil is mild and accuracy is very good. My best groups have been around 1/8" at 100 yards and usually around 3/8" - rarely larger with a fresh barrel.
If you are more of a short range guy - out to about 300 yards, I would suggest a 6BR.
If you are interested in fclass... you will be very competetive out to 600 yards but you will be undergunned at 800 to 1000 yards and would do better choosing a case in 6.5mm with about 50 grains of powder or a 7mm with about 60 grains of powder.
As for 6x47 L loads, you can run 38 grains of 4350 and 115s or 38.5 grains RL 17 with 115s, Federal match primers, and barrel twist should be 8.7" for best performance. I run very very light neck tension jam the lands and get single digit SDs. I have ran hotter loads, but primer pockets get loose after a few firings.
Bottom line is the small primer is a problem if you intend to shoot the heavy bullets like 105 to 115s. The powder burn rate for bullets of these weights is too slow for small primers despite your best efforts. You will experience a delay between the hammer drop and the bang much like a muzzle loader and velocity will not be stable from day to day as slight temperature changes.
I got around this problem by using 6XC brass from David Tubb because it uses a large primer. Once I did this the velocity evened right out and SDs were very low single digits with no hangfire.
The 6XC brass is about .050" too long in the shoulder and needs to be resized to 6x47 length. Which can be done without any significant effort, then OAL needs to be shaved back about the same amount.
After all that work hardening you should then aneal the brass.
Problem is... why bother? You are simply better off with the 6XC in the first place that way you dont need to deal with the above.
Guys have argued the small primer point with me because it works for the 6.5x47. All I can say to that is the larger 6.5 hole allows the use of faster powders that are within the performance threshold of small primers.
As far as my overall satisfaction with the round... I think this (meaning 6XC and 6x47 with 6XC brass) is one of the best rounds going for medium range target shooting and certainly game animals up to deer size and varmints. The recoil is mild and accuracy is very good. My best groups have been around 1/8" at 100 yards and usually around 3/8" - rarely larger with a fresh barrel.
If you are more of a short range guy - out to about 300 yards, I would suggest a 6BR.
If you are interested in fclass... you will be very competetive out to 600 yards but you will be undergunned at 800 to 1000 yards and would do better choosing a case in 6.5mm with about 50 grains of powder or a 7mm with about 60 grains of powder.
As for 6x47 L loads, you can run 38 grains of 4350 and 115s or 38.5 grains RL 17 with 115s, Federal match primers, and barrel twist should be 8.7" for best performance. I run very very light neck tension jam the lands and get single digit SDs. I have ran hotter loads, but primer pockets get loose after a few firings.
I have both a 6xc and a 6.5x47. The 6.5 was put together by Leeper and it puts one after the other in the same hole, using the small russian primers and rl17, and varget, with 123 lapua bullets. Farthest I've shot it is 600 yd. The 6xc I've tried to 1000 with mixed results that I hope is the wind. Shoots 1/2" @ 175 and 15'+@ 1000 the only time I tried it.
The 6.5/284 seems to be great for long distance, but the barrel life is short.
If I were to do this again, I'd go the 6.5x47 and not look back, Mark
The 6.5/284 seems to be great for long distance, but the barrel life is short.
If I were to do this again, I'd go the 6.5x47 and not look back, Mark
- Location
- Virden, MB
I stand now and will always that the best mid size round for short and long range is the 6mmBR.
It is a predicable round with good short range ability and excellent long range ability. There are a lot more bullet choices for it all with good BC. It is easy to reload as everyone that shoots them can tell you that the 105 Bergers like varget or R15 and jammed 15 thou into the lands or 105 Scenars just off the lands. Lapua Brass and CCI 450 primers and Redding dies with a .268 bushing and you are ready to shoot.
I have got 600 yards down to a science and it shoots so well a retard could do it. 800 is getting tricky with winds and 1000 again is sensitive to winds, but that is 1/2 the fun right.
It is cheap to shoot with little recoil.
It is a predicable round with good short range ability and excellent long range ability. There are a lot more bullet choices for it all with good BC. It is easy to reload as everyone that shoots them can tell you that the 105 Bergers like varget or R15 and jammed 15 thou into the lands or 105 Scenars just off the lands. Lapua Brass and CCI 450 primers and Redding dies with a .268 bushing and you are ready to shoot.
I have got 600 yards down to a science and it shoots so well a retard could do it. 800 is getting tricky with winds and 1000 again is sensitive to winds, but that is 1/2 the fun right.
It is cheap to shoot with little recoil.
I have 6XC and 6-6.5X47. Have used and played with both of them.
My results with the 6-6.5X47 were mixed at best. I shot some of best match scores with one on one day, and some of my worst the next. It is a finicky effing cartridge. I did try making brass out of 6XC brass as well and I personally did not find the results to be any better. I have also made 6X47 brass out of 22-250, and while fire-forming is a must, the results were much closer with far less trimming than is required with 6XC brass. (The fact that Lapua makes 22-250 brass is a revelation for this cartridge!) I also experimented with opening up the flash hole and only made things worse. My 8-twist went on to become a laser beam 6BR, so the barrel was not the problem.
I have made 7 and 8 twist versions and I simply found that this cartridge is a pain in the ass. My advice would be not to bother with it. I have spoken with MANY people who have had similar frustrations. (there is a 6X47.com website by the way...)
6XC on the other hand.... 39 grains of H4350 and a 115 Berger and you are good to go. Its big down-side is brass. Norma is fantastic stuff, but very expensive. Tubb brass is on par with Winchester, and if that stuff is made by Norma as some claim, I think what they meant to say was it was made by some Shemale named Norma, that works in a heating duct shop. It is all over the map quality-wise. The dies come from Tubb, and I am not a fan of FL sizing every time, but I do like the bushing/bump set up. I want a 6BR like that.
I definitely recommend the 6XC over the 6-6.6X47. Also, the 6-22-250 improved (which is really just a 6X47) is a good choice ....Kodiak2987419287349182437413244 on the board here uses one of those.
Large Legume is bang on. The 6BR is THE quintessential long-range precision 6mm. I shot one (CyaN1de loaned me his after my 6.5-284 went south mid-match) at 900 and 1000 at the PGW shoot on the worst day condition-wise and achieved the 3rd highest score.
My results with the 6-6.5X47 were mixed at best. I shot some of best match scores with one on one day, and some of my worst the next. It is a finicky effing cartridge. I did try making brass out of 6XC brass as well and I personally did not find the results to be any better. I have also made 6X47 brass out of 22-250, and while fire-forming is a must, the results were much closer with far less trimming than is required with 6XC brass. (The fact that Lapua makes 22-250 brass is a revelation for this cartridge!) I also experimented with opening up the flash hole and only made things worse. My 8-twist went on to become a laser beam 6BR, so the barrel was not the problem.
I have made 7 and 8 twist versions and I simply found that this cartridge is a pain in the ass. My advice would be not to bother with it. I have spoken with MANY people who have had similar frustrations. (there is a 6X47.com website by the way...)
6XC on the other hand.... 39 grains of H4350 and a 115 Berger and you are good to go. Its big down-side is brass. Norma is fantastic stuff, but very expensive. Tubb brass is on par with Winchester, and if that stuff is made by Norma as some claim, I think what they meant to say was it was made by some Shemale named Norma, that works in a heating duct shop. It is all over the map quality-wise. The dies come from Tubb, and I am not a fan of FL sizing every time, but I do like the bushing/bump set up. I want a 6BR like that.
I definitely recommend the 6XC over the 6-6.6X47. Also, the 6-22-250 improved (which is really just a 6X47) is a good choice ....Kodiak2987419287349182437413244 on the board here uses one of those.
Large Legume is bang on. The 6BR is THE quintessential long-range precision 6mm. I shot one (CyaN1de loaned me his after my 6.5-284 went south mid-match) at 900 and 1000 at the PGW shoot on the worst day condition-wise and achieved the 3rd highest score.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
If the question WAS about a 6.5, then the 6.5X47L is the smallest of the bunch. Works just fine and really thrives in the 120 to 130gr class.
Next up would be the 6.5 Creedmore or a 6.5-6XC or a 6.5-22/250 improved or 6.5 International, etc, etc. Lots of wildcats have been formed using this case volume over the decades.
Bigger then the Lapua so can push heavier bullets faster. At magnum pressures, it equals a 260Rem.
260Rem, the ugly duckling in the pond. Just can't find any love here but works great. Feeds from all standard mags. With reg loads, beats/equals the smaller cartridges. Run at elevated pressures can push 140's at speeds that start to get interesting.
260Rem improved, 6.5 Mystic and 6.5X55 Swede - this is where things get interesting for me. Enough case capacity to move 140's at 2900fps without fuss. Like the 6BR, easy to tune. I consider this case volume the best compromise of ballistics, wear and recoil and use it for my F class rigs.
6.5Swede improved, 6.5 - 7 Mauser improved - should reach 3000fps without alot of fuss and some of the tuning issues of the next size up. Bore wear increases of course.
6.5-284 has been celebrated and cursed by many. Can work very well. Can be a real B!tch. 3000fps and higher should be where it delivers but many have to download to around 2900+fps. I feel the case capacity is simply too big for the speeds many 140 VLD's like to fly and too small to get to the next higher node. Can be hard on barrels if using H4350. It's a tween cartridge that has become very popular dispite its issues.
6.5-06 and improved. Had a very nice chat with one of the top US shooters and he uses a 6.5-06 improved variant and blasts 155gr JLK VLD bullets at silly speeds (sorry, we don't get to play with this bullet anytime soon). LR ballistics is superb and right there with the 7's with less recoil. Barrel life is short but he installs his own barrels so he just doesn't care. Recoil is the highest of this bunch.
The further you go or the bumpier the air, higher BC and accurate speed really help with doping. More forgiving.
It's all a compromise so pick your poison and have at it.
fclassguy, I am glad that you included your thoughts on a small primer and hang fires. This process was tried and failed in the 70's yet new attempts are being made again today. New powders might help but I see no point in running on the ragged edge.
One miss fire ruins a match.
Jerry
Next up would be the 6.5 Creedmore or a 6.5-6XC or a 6.5-22/250 improved or 6.5 International, etc, etc. Lots of wildcats have been formed using this case volume over the decades.
Bigger then the Lapua so can push heavier bullets faster. At magnum pressures, it equals a 260Rem.
260Rem, the ugly duckling in the pond. Just can't find any love here but works great. Feeds from all standard mags. With reg loads, beats/equals the smaller cartridges. Run at elevated pressures can push 140's at speeds that start to get interesting.
260Rem improved, 6.5 Mystic and 6.5X55 Swede - this is where things get interesting for me. Enough case capacity to move 140's at 2900fps without fuss. Like the 6BR, easy to tune. I consider this case volume the best compromise of ballistics, wear and recoil and use it for my F class rigs.
6.5Swede improved, 6.5 - 7 Mauser improved - should reach 3000fps without alot of fuss and some of the tuning issues of the next size up. Bore wear increases of course.
6.5-284 has been celebrated and cursed by many. Can work very well. Can be a real B!tch. 3000fps and higher should be where it delivers but many have to download to around 2900+fps. I feel the case capacity is simply too big for the speeds many 140 VLD's like to fly and too small to get to the next higher node. Can be hard on barrels if using H4350. It's a tween cartridge that has become very popular dispite its issues.
6.5-06 and improved. Had a very nice chat with one of the top US shooters and he uses a 6.5-06 improved variant and blasts 155gr JLK VLD bullets at silly speeds (sorry, we don't get to play with this bullet anytime soon). LR ballistics is superb and right there with the 7's with less recoil. Barrel life is short but he installs his own barrels so he just doesn't care. Recoil is the highest of this bunch.
The further you go or the bumpier the air, higher BC and accurate speed really help with doping. More forgiving.
It's all a compromise so pick your poison and have at it.
fclassguy, I am glad that you included your thoughts on a small primer and hang fires. This process was tried and failed in the 70's yet new attempts are being made again today. New powders might help but I see no point in running on the ragged edge.
One miss fire ruins a match.
Jerry
I have been shooting a 6.5-47Lapua using 123gn Scenars and H4850 at 2950 fps. The necks have all been turned.
I have used this for 2 years for the Precision shooting matches at the ORA and plan to continue using it in the future.
These matches run from 100 to 900 yards, and aside from just liking this cartrige here are my reasons for sticking with it.
(1) you can get mag length loads, that still come within 5 thou of the lands. In precision we have one course of fire where you have to fire at 2 targets in 8 seconds, vbull is 1.5 inches and range is 200 yards. For me it is much easier to load 2 at a time and cycle the bolt than it is to feed one at a time and get of 2 accurate shots in 8 seconds. I could use a mag, but I do not have one for this rifle.
(2) I get to see all my own shots as the recoil is minimal, I often see my own 'swirl'. On movers, and snap shots it helps me to spot my own shots, I do have a spotter but I still find my brain works faster when I have my own input
(3) Accuracy out to 800 yards is no problem with this rifle. I have only been to 900 once so far as we do not always shoot this distance, on that day the wind was 10-12 mph and 900 was a bit challenging. But then it was also challenging for everyone else
These are obviously personal preferences, and if I owned a 6XC I might be saying the same things about it.
I have used this for 2 years for the Precision shooting matches at the ORA and plan to continue using it in the future.
These matches run from 100 to 900 yards, and aside from just liking this cartrige here are my reasons for sticking with it.
(1) you can get mag length loads, that still come within 5 thou of the lands. In precision we have one course of fire where you have to fire at 2 targets in 8 seconds, vbull is 1.5 inches and range is 200 yards. For me it is much easier to load 2 at a time and cycle the bolt than it is to feed one at a time and get of 2 accurate shots in 8 seconds. I could use a mag, but I do not have one for this rifle.
(2) I get to see all my own shots as the recoil is minimal, I often see my own 'swirl'. On movers, and snap shots it helps me to spot my own shots, I do have a spotter but I still find my brain works faster when I have my own input
(3) Accuracy out to 800 yards is no problem with this rifle. I have only been to 900 once so far as we do not always shoot this distance, on that day the wind was 10-12 mph and 900 was a bit challenging. But then it was also challenging for everyone else
These are obviously personal preferences, and if I owned a 6XC I might be saying the same things about it.
Wow great info guys! Thanks so much for this
It looks like I would be better served by the .260 Remington tho.
I'm looking for something that I cantake to 800-1000m and the more I look at it the 6.5x47 seems like a bit of a finikey round to take out this far.
Keep the info coming guys, I appreciat all the info you have to give.
Tim
It looks like I would be better served by the .260 Remington tho.
I'm looking for something that I cantake to 800-1000m and the more I look at it the 6.5x47 seems like a bit of a finikey round to take out this far.
Keep the info coming guys, I appreciat all the info you have to give.
Tim
CGN "Shockman" came in second at the Western Canadian F-Class Championships shooting (800-1000 yds) a 260. He also swept the BC Provincials with the same gun. Ron "Habu" Hermes also did extremely well with a 260. This is a fantastic cartridge and can work very well with good barrel life, excellent brass and very high BC bullets.
Wow great info guys! Thanks so much for this
It looks like I would be better served by the .260 Remington tho.
I'm looking for something that I cantake to 800-1000m and the more I look at it the 6.5x47 seems like a bit of a finikey round to take out this far.
Keep the info coming guys, I appreciat all the info you have to give.
Tim
Agree, the 6.5-47L is not for 1000 yards, my impression is that it reaches its practical limit at 800-900 yards
The 260 is better to get to 1000 yards
Of course ONT0001 can attest that the 260 Ackley is even better
Wow is all i can say. None of the people that help set up the night before got "to run the course".....maybe if you came the night before and helped out, you would see how it really is.
Those same guys with the mini and the .204 beat some very respectable and good shooters. It's anybody's match any given day.
Anyways back to the thread. I shoot a 6.5x47 Lapua. Awesome all around cartridge from close ranges out to 1000 yards. Very decent BC with the 130's Bergers. Barrel life should be very good as well. Small primer, small flashhole. My loads are pretty much stuffed full with Reloader 15 and there are no real big pressure signs. Another cool feature is the steeper shoulder.....minimal brass flow. Plus lapua makes the brass so you pretty much load and shoot. They did their homework when they designed this cartridge.
If you do want strictly a long range (800 to 1000) gun, 260 is definetly superior. 6.5 x 47 L will work very well until the conditions get ugly. Then you want all the help you can get. 140 grn with a higher BC in the .260 will help but you still have to be a good driver.
- Location
- Virden, MB
Kinda tuff when I work until 5pm 400 Kms away from Selkirk.
Anyways, my point was not that the winners got to shoot the night before, but that the course was not won because of the caliber, anyone could win it with what ever they brought. 200 yards is a piece of cake for any caliber.
FWIW, Henri Josselin of France recently fired a 600-36x in the 300 m elimination round at the ISSF World Championships in Munich with factory-loaded 6.5x47 ammo. You can check out his targets here.
Keep in mind the X-ring is just 50 mm at 300 metres and he was shooting prone with a sling and iron sights. . . .
Jason
Keep in mind the X-ring is just 50 mm at 300 metres and he was shooting prone with a sling and iron sights. . . .
Jason
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
And that is exactly what the 6.5X47L was designed to do.
Similar accuracy to the 6BR (which has been the dominant choice) with better ballistics.
Jerry
Similar accuracy to the 6BR (which has been the dominant choice) with better ballistics.
Jerry
Yup. There was another 600 fired on the same day by Vebjoern Berg of Norway (say that with a mouthful of peanut butter) using a 6mm BR in a Bleiker. But his score was an even better 600-43x. I'm not sure what rifle Josselin was using but Berg was probably using this one.
And in the end neither of them won -- Berg had a 598-44x to finish 2nd and Josselin a 596-31x to finish 17th. I've never heard of the guy who won -- Stefan Raser of Austria with a 599-36x -- but he is a member of the Austrian CISM team so it wasn't a fluke.
I guess it really is all about the nut behind the trigger.
Jason
And in the end neither of them won -- Berg had a 598-44x to finish 2nd and Josselin a 596-31x to finish 17th. I've never heard of the guy who won -- Stefan Raser of Austria with a 599-36x -- but he is a member of the Austrian CISM team so it wasn't a fluke.
I guess it really is all about the nut behind the trigger.
Jason
