6.5x55 Clickers issue

rberresheim said:
I have a custom 6.5x55 shooting Berger 153.5gr using Lapua brass and 43.2gr of RL17 @ 2830fps from a 29” barrel. When my brass was virgin it extracted smoothly. I have found after reloading that brass I am getting clickers in varying degrees from barely noticeable to needing a tap of the palm to get the bolt to lift the last 20 degrees to open the action.

I do not believe it is a pressure issue, when the brass was virgin I shot ladders up to 44.5gr without any issues. I also loaded the once fired brass a full grain lower than my load at 42.2gr and still had the same issues with clickers.

My resizing procedure has been to push the shoulders back .002”. I also tried bottoming the die on the shell holder to the point of cam over to see if it was the base of the case not getting properly sized in these cases I had up to .010” head space.

I think the issue is the body not getting sized down enough but I’m not sure, all cases chamber with zero resistance when I remove firing pin and spring the bolt handle drops freely.

My next plan is to cut the top off a sizing die and mill .020” off the bottom so I can squeeze the body slightly smaller.

Anyone ever experience anything like this and have some advice?
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Your load is hot. We don’t get above 2830 to 2880 fps with custom action in 29 inch barrel with 140’s without exceeding brass design pressures.

Back down to sub 2750’s and you won’t have issues.

You’ll need a brass roller to save those brass or to ask you gunsmith to open your chamber web area above the 0.200 section to about 0.002". You’ll still be over reasonable pressures but the sizing die will be able to size the brass now.

Have you measured your base diameter vs new brass and compared to the reamer drawing.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this what small base dies are all about?

As above, either open the chamber, or use a smaller die.

Due to spring-back in brass the sizing die actually needs to be smaller than the chamber diameter to do its job.

Alex Wheeler did a bunch of public education on this subject when the 6 5PRC first came out.

On the subject of possible pressure, I like to measure Case Webs, just ahead of the extractor groove. If a fired piece of brass grows any more than .001" there, I consider the load 'too hot. I'm no expert, that's just a trick I picked up along the way because I don't like popped primers or hammering bolts open. Works for me (as long as I remember my calipers 🤣)
 
Hand Skills said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this what small base dies are all about?

As above, either open the chamber, or use a smaller die.

Due to spring-back in brass the sizing die actually needs to be smaller than the chamber diameter to do its job.

Alex Wheeler did a bunch of public education on this subject when the 6 5PRC first came out.

On the subject of possible pressure, I like to measure Case Webs, just ahead of the extractor groove. If a fired piece of brass grows any more than .001" there, I consider the load 'too hot. I'm no expert, that's just a trick I picked up along the way because I don't like popped primers or hammering bolts open. Works for me (as long as I remember my calipers 🤣)
Click to expand...
Yes that’s what a small base is for but there not one for every calibers.

You spot one Mr Wheeler have many reamer designs that remove the clicker issue with many new caliber line the prc.
 
So I threw this into GRT just to see sadly they didn't have the 153.5 bergers. It did have the 153gr A-tip from Hornady. They are over pressure at a normal COAL.

I also created the 153.5 Berger Profile with info from Berger and the internet. They show as over pressure as well.

If you can give me your COAL I can try to add that data as well. This is just the best I could check it out based on what I have available to me.

Screen Shot 2024-12-09 at 17.27.30 PM.png

Cheers,
B
 
rberresheim said:
I have a custom 6.5x55 shooting Berger 153.5gr using Lapua brass and 43.2gr of RL17 @ 2830fps from a 29” barrel. When my brass was virgin it extracted smoothly. I have found after reloading that brass I am getting clickers
Click to expand...


here's some Quickload predicted data at 62,000 PSI in a 29" barrel :


Cartridge : 6.5 x 55
Bullet : .264, 153.5,Berger LRBTHP #26786
Useable Case Capaci: 52.418 grain H2O = 3.403 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.185 inch = 80.90 mm
Barrel Length : 29.0 inch = 736.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

52 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N568 104.8 52.9 3.42 2915 99.2 62000 9797 1.386 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26 92.9 48.3 3.13 2889 100.0 62000 8695 1.376 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 104.0 50.2 3.26 2884 99.9 62000 9231 1.374 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 102.1 49.1 3.18 2882 100.0 62000 8530 1.363 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-33 105.0 55.0 3.57 2877 97.4 57805 10138 1.409 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 96.1 47.4 3.07 2874 99.6 62000 9284 1.374 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 94.1 47.5 3.08 2873 100.0 62000 8869 1.378 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828SSC 95.3 47.3 3.07 2868 99.8 62000 8962 1.363 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 96.4 49.5 3.21 2865 98.9 62000 9406 1.379 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N565 100.3 49.8 3.23 2851 99.7 62000 9162 1.390 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 96.3 47.0 3.05 2847 100.0 62000 8835 1.382 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 105.0 50.2 3.25 2841 99.9 60865 8748 1.367 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 96.6 50.8 3.29 2835 100.0 62000 8411 1.373 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo 105.0 51.0 3.31 2829 100.0 55160 8901 1.407
Alliant Reloder-19 93.7 45.3 2.93 2807 100.0 62000 8464 1.387 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 89.2 42.0 2.72 2803 100.0 62000 7775 1.384 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 84.3 42.7 2.77 2801 100.0 62000 7781 1.391 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 97.5 46.1 2.99 2799 100.0 62000 7784 1.393 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 89.3 44.5 2.89 2793 100.0 62000 8065 1.395 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 84.3 43.1 2.79 2791 100.0 62000 8087 1.396 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 84.3 43.1 2.79 2791 100.0 62000 8087 1.396 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N555 94.1 44.6 2.89 2787 100.0 62000 7832 1.410 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831SC 95.1 46.4 3.01 2786 99.4 62000 8476 1.387 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 89.1 44.4 2.88 2784 100.0 62000 8273 1.391 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 86.3 42.6 2.76 2769 100.0 62000 7823 1.408 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 88.7 42.4 2.75 2765 100.0 62000 7695 1.405 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4955 Enduron 96.7 45.4 2.94 2758 99.5 62000 8260 1.396 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 98.8 47.2 3.06 2752 100.0 62000 7853 1.401 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 87.4 42.2 2.74 2751 100.0 62000 7602 1.417 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 91.8 43.4 2.81 2746 100.0 62000 7766 1.402 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 90.1 43.3 2.81 2745 100.0 62000 7745 1.403 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 93.0 43.0 2.79 2745 100.0 62000 7508 1.414 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron 86.7 41.4 2.68 2733 100.0 62000 7652 1.387 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 86.4 42.6 2.76 2726 100.0 62000 7297 1.411 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 91.0 42.5 2.76 2717 100.0 62000 7063 1.412 ! Near Maximum !
 
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Beater said:
ok here is another idea, that wont cost as much as a reloading die. mill .20 thou off the shell holder instead of the die. this has fixed the problem for me in the past. could also be a mismatched shellholder. lot cheeper to replace a shell holder than a die. lot easyer to cut to
Click to expand...
Great idea if it is a shell issue, but it may be a shell length issue. May need to trim cases.
 
bdb.hunting said:
So I threw this into GRT just to see sadly they didn't have the 153.5 bergers. It did have the 153gr A-tip from Hornady. They are over pressure at a normal COAL.

I also created the 153.5 Berger Profile with info from Berger and the internet. They show as over pressure as well.

If you can give me your COAL I can try to add that data as well. This is just the best I could check it out based on what I have available to me.

View attachment 864722

Cheers,
B
Click to expand...
My COAL is 3.230"
 
Beater said:
ok here is another idea, that wont cost as much as a reloading die. mill .20 thou off the shell holder instead of the die. this has fixed the problem for me in the past. could also be a mismatched shellholder. lot cheeper to replace a shell holder than a die. lot easyer to cut to
Click to expand...
id still have to cut the top of the die unless i wanted my shoulder pushed back .020"
 
bdb.hunting said:
With the COAL included. it shows right on the money at 3782 Bar which is just shy of the max 3800 Bar pressure.

So its definitely close.

B
Click to expand...
thanks, I did have a buddy check it in quick load before i started development but good to double check. the clickers did not seem to improve at all when i reduced by a full grain. But perhaps the damage is already done to the brass at that point and needs the base resized.
 
Thing is, there are variables that are not easily modelled such as bore dia, powder variations, bullet hardness, etc. Your loads are hot, and your brass has expanded at the base. You may have to start again with new brass, as it is virtually impossible to resize brass at the base of the case.
 
Roll sizing is one way to reduce the case buldge for non belted cases. F Class John has a video that goes into details of the procedure.




Lee has a buldge buster die that looks like the 45ACP version would work on similar head stamps like 6.5-55
Has anyone tried it?
 
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cosmic said:
Thing is, there are variables that are not easily modelled such as bore dia, powder variations, bullet hardness, etc. Your loads are hot, and your brass has expanded at the base. You may have to start again with new brass, as it is virtually impossible to resize brass at the base of the case.
Click to expand...
It is possible that the load is hot, I can still resize it and chamber the brass with zero resistance. Another check I did was to coat a fired clicker with a sharpie and chamber it to see where it’s rubbing. I found that it’s not at the web but at the head (where it interface with the bolt face). So the case must be elongating when fired. Still could be too hot but it’s happening even with less powder. Is it possible the chamber is too polished and there is nothing for the case wall to hold onto causing it to stretch?
 
You can about go nuts if you do not accept that someone sets dimensions. For example, the Swede military Regimental headspace gauges are LONGER than SAAMI gauges - so a new, fresh-from-Carl-Gustaf Armoury Model 96 will measure to have "too long" headspace if you use SAAMI gauges. The Swede 6.5x55 GO gauge is LONGER than the SAAMI 6.5x55 NOGO gauge. But, if you are going to use SAAMI compliant ammo as available in North America, or plan to reload with SAAMI compliant tools, there may be some merit to having a SAAMI compliant chamber. Or, fit the brass to that chamber, and to hell with SAAMI headspace dimensions ...

Or, do like most military do - no intention to ever reload - fire that round once and the case is discarded - on to a "new" one for next round fired. I think their design and tolerances were all based on that chamber, fire and extract once cycle, and most of the time, do not fail to fire or blow up. As I understand, everyone in a military is using the exact same ammo - or at least the ammo meets exact same standards - which may or may not be the same as what SAAMI decided.
 
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downwindtracker2 said:
On reading about M-96s, military headspace can be different. After changing bolts, mine is within commercial specs, so I promptly forgot the numbers.
Click to expand...
My CG63 (M96 INTO TGT RIFLE) doesn't have an issue chewing through mil surp or factory. I'm doing reloads on RWS brass and having zero issues, except for running out of shooting distance. Tomorrow I'm out to 600 +m
 
rberresheim said:
A clicker in reloading will be when the web of the case is expanded beyond the chambers dimensions. Generally this is caused by over pressure. The term clicker comes from the noise or feeling of clicking you get from opening a bolt on a fired case with a case that has had abnormal web expansion - a clicking noise ~from the internet

What I'm experiencing is a easy bolt lift in till the last 20 degrees or so at which point i hit a wall of resistance. this is where the case begins to be extracted, once i break through said wall the case extracts without issue so the click is the case becoming unstuck from the chamber and your bolt handle traveling the remainder of its throw until it hits its travel limit. I have to admit i also had no idea what a "clicker" was until this issue.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the explanation. I had never come across that terminology before.
 
That CG63 sounds like fun.

Military gauges are Go, Field, and NoGo. When I was looking up my M-96s I found a web site. He wrote about them. I gave away one sporter to my daughter-in-law and fixed the other one. I tried a Tradex clip but since the rifle was used at the range only, I went back to single shot . It's for sale in EE
 
downwindtracker2 said:
That CG63 sounds like fun.

Military gauges are Go, Field, and NoGo. When I was looking up my M-96s I found a web site. He wrote about them. I gave away one sporter to my daughter-in-law and fixed the other one. I tried a Tradex clip but since the rifle was used at the range only, I went back to single shot . It's for sale in EE
Click to expand...
It is, I didn't have a good spotter and it was a bit of an exercise at 500m today.
 
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