600-800m Semi Auto...whats out there
- Thread starter baker42
- Start date
LMAO on the Dragunov holding MOA out to 800m like the OP asked for.
No such an animal besides a heavy barrel .308 AR and even then, consistent moa to 800m.....maybe...maybe.
Please tell me about your extensive experience with the Dragunov. ( Shooting it once with military ball doesnt count )
A rebarreled Dragunov in a better calibre with hand loaded ammo.. just fine. you can also free float them pretty easily.
Im just about to pick up another in .308 which will eventually wear a custom carbon wrapped barrel in 6.5 Creedmoore
I wouldnt bet on a military issued dragunov doing what the OP wants. which is why i didnt suggest using an Issued model.
although mainly i just suggested it to be 'that' guy
So far what I'm reading is:
For CONSISTANT sub-moa accuracy at 600-800 meters out of a semi auto you have to spend around $5k. And it's either a restricted AR-10 or an m1a with a tonn of work done.
There's potential for a modern hunter do do it but there's no solid repeatable data from multiple users yet.
But prettymuch everything else out there non restricted .308 will do minute of man/pizza box at those ranges? Is that even consistent?
For CONSISTANT sub-moa accuracy at 600-800 meters out of a semi auto you have to spend around $5k. And it's either a restricted AR-10 or an m1a with a tonn of work done.
There's potential for a modern hunter do do it but there's no solid repeatable data from multiple users yet.
But prettymuch everything else out there non restricted .308 will do minute of man/pizza box at those ranges? Is that even consistent?
The MH may be close but I haven't seen anybody post any solid 5 round groups yet. Always 4 and a flyer. Maybe with some hand loads it'll get there. I'm going with the ruger , it should be almost as fast as a semi .308? Anyway, how fast can you get with a semi .308 anyway ?
I'd agree that at the 600-800 meter ranges a semi auto won't be any faster than a bolt gun.The only advantage I see on a semi auto would be not having to remove your hand to cycle the action after each shot but at extended distances that won't really give you an edge.
What semi autos are great for is like long distance volley fire kind of deal where your shooting five rounds at a 12" gong at 500-600M kind of as quick as you can and if 2-3 out of 5 hit anywhere on the gong hey that was fun! and pretty much any non restricted .308 can fulfill that role from what I've read and experienced.
But if your trying to actually keep as tight of grouping as you can at long range, a semi auto that can do that consistently is a pretty big amount of money for no real advantage over a bolt gun, long range shooting fundamentals still apply across the board. Not saying those tricked out m1a's are inferior to a bolt gun, just a different way of achieving the same thing, but if money is a factor is a waaaaay more expensive route. I think the big allure is a super accurate semi auto is cool as f***! and that's why I've tried to pursue it as well and don't think less of anyone who does, but its very hard to do in Canada if you want to stay non restricted.
Please tell me about your extensive experience with the Dragunov. ( Shooting it once with military ball doesnt count )
A rebarreled Dragunov in a better calibre with hand loaded ammo.. just fine. you can also free float them pretty easily.
Im just about to pick up another in .308 which will eventually wear a custom carbon wrapped barrel in 6.5 Creedmoore
I wouldnt bet on a military issued dragunov doing what the OP wants. which is why i didnt suggest using an Issued model.
although mainly i just suggested it to be 'that' guy
I have fired it on 3 occasions, my relatives have one in their collection (not here in Canada). It was an original in 7.62X54R and we shot it at 300m each time, yes with match ammo.
It is a neat rifle and it does the job it was designed for quite well, but it's not a precision rifle.
I have no idea about customizing them so I will defer to you on that. In my opinion if a guy wants a rifle that will hold moa out to 800m the logical tool is a bolt gun or using the most accurate semi auto platform for the build which is the AR.
I had a mini 14 target that would do half moa. I know I am going to get flamed but 223 is good to 600 so I can't see the mini having trouble. For 1200 plus a good scope and rings it is possible. I'm not talking grandpa's old coyote gun but the target version. With some upgrades it would have been a great gun wish I still had it
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I posted earlier, but the swiss arms sniper model will do what the op wants and is a non restricted 223. It is really the only rifle that fits his criteria (except price) that I have owned.
However, It is expensive due to it's very limited number in country.
MOA at 800m is not possible with the Swiss Arms because any bullets that can reach that distance maybe too long to fit into swiss arms magazines. The twist rate of Swiss arms in 1/10 is also not fast enough to stabilize anything over 70gr. Also, MK262 at 5.56 pressure will be just subsonic at 800m out of a 18" SPR. Adding a few inches of barrel may give it another 150 fps or so, but it is still on the edge.
The problem is that it is rarely be able to see MOA results ( if it is actually capable of it ) at 600 to 800m with a 5.56 out in the field, because any slightest wind movement will blow the bullets off course. A submoa 5.56 gun at 100m does not translate to real world results at 600 to 800m unless we all shoot inside a tunnel.
To get a MOA ( or close to MOA capable ) semi auto out to 800m at the lowest cost possible , it is probably doable with a low end DPMS type 7.62 gun and put a long heavy match barrel on it, at least before the CDN dollar tanked, but I have doubt even a highend 7.62 semi auto can maintain MOA at 800m out in the field.
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I don't think NR SUB-MOA semi-auto under 2k yet to exist in Canada.
maybe save up the pennies for a MH or buy this, if the AR ergonomics is what you are after.
The FNAR is around 2K and is an easy sub MOA NR SA 308 rifle... JP.
The barrel on the sniper as 26"
All I can suggest is owning one and trying it out, I did and know what it is capable of in the right conditions.
Stating wind is a factor is nothing new, a bolt gun has no advantage in a windy situation.
Suggesting a restricted semi is a non starter IMO as our laws prohibit anything but a range and that I can guarantee is something the OP does not want.
