$600 semi? Mp153/1187????

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JohnakaJesus

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I'm a new shooter looking to purchase my first semi. I will be doing both sport shooting and maybe some hunting. I was told not to bother with a pump if I plAn on doing a lot of skeet, which I plan on doing. Looking to spend about $600 and would like a new gun, not something used. I've been looking at the baikal 153 $539(sail) the Remington 11 87 $574 (le baron) and weatherby sa08 $499 (cabbalas), but really don't know what I want. Searched the forum and that confused me even more as i've heard major pros and cons of both. HELP

Thanks
 
Of those 3, I would personally go with the 11-87...especially if you plan on shooting thousands of rounds and keeping the gun for many years. 25 years from now the 11-87 will still be a solid gun and any replacement parts that will be needed will actually be available, something that will certainly not be the case for the Weatherby and probably not for the Baikal either. As far as a pump action is concerned for skeet...I'm pretty sure there are still many records that were set with a pump gun that have yet to be broken to this day! Pratice makes perfect and a pump gun is just as quick as a semi-auto...sometimes quicker...well when I'm behind the trigger anyway!
 
Mossberg 935 for me. I bought one here in Newfoundland with max 4 Camo for 639 plus tax. It will even cycle the cheap winchester steel 2 3/4 that nothing cycles.

Also I was told by a local Remington dealer they will no longer be selling any Remington shotgun products. Apparently most of the small components are now made in China and assembled in the USA. I can't verify, it was only what I was told.
 
davemccarthy707 said:
Mossberg 935 for me. I bought one here in Newfoundland with max 4 Camo for 639 plus tax. It will even cycle the cheap winchester steel 2 3/4 that nothing cycles.

Also I was told by a local Remington dealer they will no longer be selling any Remington shotgun products. Apparently most of the small components are now made in China and assembled in the USA. I can't verify, it was only what I was told.
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You have been told wrong. What a pile of crap they probally dumped him and now sour grapes.
Remington makes all their "core" guns in the US and all of the parts for them.
Yes they do import some foreign made guns, but these are well known and labeled as such , not 1187's.

The Chinese, (Norinco) makes copies of several American shotguns, including Remington 870, Winchester Models Ithaca Models.

That is probally what he is on to.

To the Op I would go with the 1187 also but no larger than a 3"
 
3macs1 said:
You have been told wrong. What a pile of crap they probally dumped him and now soar grapes.
Remington makes all their "core" guns in America and all of the parts for them.
Yes they do import some foreign made guns, but these are well known and labeled as such , not 1187's.

The Chinese, (Norinco) makes copies of several American shotguns, including Remington 870, Winchester Models Ithaca Models.
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While that may be true, the Dominion Arms Grizzly I just got seems a better gun out of the box than the several 870 Express's I have handled.
 
mlehtovaara said:
While that may be true, the Dominion Arms Grizzly I just got seems a better gun out of the box than the several 870 Express's I have handled.
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You get what you pay for on both guns mentioned initial express models were fine however after they refined them as they say hit and miss, good and bad. Me I will stick to my wingmasters they have served me well for over 45 years with 1000's of rounds fired and never an issue,but hey to each their own. Wonder if anyone will even remember the chinese made guns in that time frame.Take care
 
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I have the mp153 which Remington was importing under their name as a spartan something or other (forgive me if I have it mixed up), purchased roughly 4 and half years ago.

I have the full synthetic one with 28" barrel. I was similar to you, looking for a catch all gun, something for fun, and possibly some hunting.

I thought it had a good price, and liked the fact that it came with a full choke set rated for steel shot (duck hunting), it uses browning threading for chokes I believe (I bought a super full turkey choke for it). Also it takes shell sizes from 2 3/4 to 3 1/2.

I have fired several thousand shells through it without ever having a problem.

I love shooting trap with it, its fairly light weight(my opinion), and the recoil is very very light, it also cycles all the different shells I've tried, different drams, from light to heavy loads. It is quite easy to clean as well (not that shotguns are overly hard to clean).

The only other semi I have shot is a beretta pintail, and I like the Baikal better (when shooting trap on cheap target loads, my friends pintail had a few issues cycling, while the baikal ran flawlessly). I've shot over unders, side by sides, pumps. While they all have a special place in my heart, the baikal is a great semi and in my opinion you could do no wrong with it.

Also they are built like a tank... Check out this video...

http://youtu.be/JzmcMbLY2fI


Cheers!

J.
 
You need to shoulder each gun, come see it in person, see how it points, how it swings before you decide.

But the first step should be to go talk to your club manager or instructor for clays. They will give you plenty of good advice what is right and what may not be right for you. They may explain you the game, the proper fit, etc.

It is very important to start out with the right equipment and learn the proper way -- once and for all.

Before semi-autos, pumps were actually very popular for clays. Though slower on doubles than semis but still manageable. Then there was semis craze. And now people are going back to the old and proven over and unders.

Coming back to semis that you want to buy, avoid 1187 and MP153. MP is crude as hell! 1187 jams lots (in my hands).
Better options would be 1100 Skeet (handles lighter loads better than 1187) or SA08 (proven Beretta action, has a separate piston for light loads -- good for any clay game).

JohnakaJesus said:
I'm a new shooter looking to purchase my first semi. I will be doing both sport shooting and maybe some hunting. I was told not to bother with a pump if I plAn on doing a lot of skeet, which I plan on doing. Looking to spend about $600 and would like a new gun, not something used. I've been looking at the baikal 153 $539(sail) the Remington 11 87 $574 (le baron) and weatherby sa08 $499 (cabbalas), but really don't know what I want. Searched the forum and that confused me even more as i've heard major pros and cons of both. HELP

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
ss1980 said:
You need to shoulder each gun, come see it in person, see how it points, how it swings before you decide.

But the first step should be to go talk to your club manager or instructor for clays. They will give you plenty of good advice what is right and what may not be right for you. They may explain you the game, the proper fit, etc.

It is very important to start out with the right equipment and learn the proper way -- once and for all.

Before semi-autos, pumps were actually very popular for clays. Though slower on doubles than semis but still manageable. Then there was semis craze. And now people are going back to the old and proven over and unders.

Coming back to semis that you want to buy, avoid 1187 and MP153. MP is crude as hell! 1187 jams lots (in my hands).
Better options would be 1100 Skeet (handles lighter loads better than 1187) or SA08 (proven Beretta action, has a separate piston for light loads -- good for any clay game).
Click to expand...

I second that
 
3macs1 said:
You have been told wrong. What a pile of crap they probally dumped him and now sour grapes.
Remington makes all their "core" guns in the US and all of the parts for them.
Yes they do import some foreign made guns, but these are well known and labeled as such , not 1187's.

The Chinese, (Norinco) makes copies of several American shotguns, including Remington 870, Winchester Models Ithaca Models.

That is probally what he is on to.

To the Op I would go with the 1187 also but no larger than a 3"
Click to expand...

It is possible, however he specifically pointed to his last 11-87 (and Remington shotgun) and said once that is gone that is it. He said all the parts in that gun and the pumps are now made in China. I couldn't believe it either. Probably just sour grapes.
 
If I was in your shoes I save more money and look at a used beretta or Winchester sx3. If I had to spend less look at the mossberg 930. You should really shoulder a few guns. But one think for sure once you spend alittle bit more that quality difference is alot.
 
davemccarthy707 said:
It is possible, however he specifically pointed to his last 11-87 (and Remington shotgun) and said once that is gone that is it. He said all the parts in that gun and the pumps are now made in China. I couldn't believe it either. Probably just sour grapes.
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For sure. I read about this some time ago on the shotgun forum and being a made in the USA crew there they freaked. There is quite a bit of conversation there including a post from a guy that worked at the remington factory in NY that put it to rest.
Too many chinese copies out there and many think they are remington products because they look the same from a quick glance.
About 2 years ago I sold a wingmaster barrel to a member and he sent me a Pm quite upset that my barrel was damaged and would not fit in his receiver well after some conversation turned out my barrel was fine in a remington but his gun was not so die grinder time. The chinese use some of the worst steel out there so I can just imagine how it will perform in firearms in the long term.take care
 
I have an 1187 and my dad and wife both have a Mossberg 930. There has been no problem with either gun as far as reliability or jamming. To me, the 1187 has a bit less recoil and is built a little stronger. Once in awhile you might have to change a 40 cent oring which is simple to do. But if you are one who wants to never clean a gun just to brag that it will still function, then perhaps I would look at something else.
 
pbonura said:
If I was in your shoes I save more money and look at a used beretta or Winchester sx3. If I had to spend less look at the mossberg 930. You should really shoulder a few guns. But one think for sure once you spend alittle bit more that quality difference is alot.
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Yes I thought it was just the three so would go with the 1187 but agree 100% on the X3, in fact there was a real nice gold on the EE a few days ago for 800 OBO looked to be lightly used.
 
gunsaholic said:
I have an 1187 and my dad and wife both have a Mossberg 930. There has been no problem with either gun as far as reliability or jamming. To me, the 1187 has a bit less recoil and is built a little stronger. Once in awhile you might have to change a 40 cent oring which is simple to do. But if you are one who wants to never clean a gun just to brag that it will still function, then perhaps I would look at something else.
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Agree I bought one of the 1st 1187's they made and actually had to order it in 1986 since they were that new. That gun worked perfectly as long as I used 1oz loads or larger and cleaned it after every outing which is my practise anyway.
The 1187 super mag was a different animal and no matter what I did I could not get that puppy to work properly even with the extra gas kit or what ever they added on later. 90 % of problems with semi's today on the quality ones is the owner not taking care of them and cheap shells
 
I wouldn't dismiss a pump without some consideration. Don't get me wrong if your heart is set on a semi I would pursue that, if its just cause you think you need one that is a mistake. Many people can quickly learn to run a pump as quickly as most people can accurately shoot a semi. I would add to my list if I were in your shoes the remington 870 wingmaster, as well as used remington 1100's and have to second the suggestion of looking for a used winchester SX3 as well as adding the browning silver (used of course) would be on my list.
 
A gas auto is a great choice if you intend to shoot lots of clays. For the hunting aspect, choke tubes are a great advantage. Will your hunting require steel shot, or just upland birds? That can influence your selection as well.

I have an 11-87 in 20 ga., and it works great. No problems with it at all. I also have a 20 ga. 1100. Same report. Both handle target loads 100%. Same with my Mossberg 930 in 12 ga. All great guns. I have no experience with the Baikal or the Weatherby.

Really, in the end it comes down to personal choice. Go to a gun store and check them all out. If you can, go to a trap & skeet club and see if you can try out the guns of other members, usually we're glad to help out.
 
On the skeet field, I see remington 1187 and 1100's fail to cycle on a regular basis. There are 2 exceptions. One guy has a 20ga 1187 that ran like crap out of the box. After ALOT of work, it seems to work well now. Another buddy has an 1100 12ga that has thousands of rounds on it that always works.I have browning and winchester semi's that always work. Get a used winchester sx3 or browning silver. Even used they will be more money,but worth every penny.
 
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