600 yard rifle

My experience is when you practice on paper and you can in certain conditions shoot 10 shots group, within 4 inch @ 600 metres, one after another, 100% of the time, when those conditions are recognized in a hunting situation, there is no reasons you should not take that shot... If the conditions are not the same, the equation is not the same, so passing on that shot is the right thing to do also the caliber is irrelevant if you got a minimum of 1000 pounds of energy and you are right on target, dead is dead... JP.
 
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Ar180shooter said:
Agreed on the part about going to the range.

I've seen many 600 yard rifles, but very few 600 yard shooters.
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I would suggest not going to the range if your intention is long range hunting. Go to the woods and practice with the equipment you will have with you hunting setting up targets in real life scenarios you will have to deal with while hunting will allow you to be comfortable making the shot on an animal. Punching paper on the bench is only going to help you to a certain point.
 
caramel said:
My experience is when you practice on paper and you can in certain conditions shoot 10 shots group, within 4 inch @ 600 metres, one after another, 100% of the time, when those conditions are recognized in a hunting situation, there is no reasons you should not take that shot... If the conditions are not the same, the equation is not the same, so passing on that shot is the right thing to do... JP.
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I would hazard a guess the average hunter wouldn't get 4 inch 10 shot groups at 100 yards in field condition. Hell, I see a lot of guys sighting in hunting rifles at the range, off a bench at 100 yards,that aren't getting 4 inch 3 shot groups.
People that partake at long range hunting are perfectionist, they have the equipment, they put in the time and they practise until they are confident in their success. And they most likely wound LESS game than the average Joe.
 
caramel said:
My experience is when you practice on paper and you can in certain conditions shoot 10 shots group, within 4 inch @ 600 metres, one after another, 100% of the time, when those conditions are recognized in a hunting situation, there is no reasons you should not take that shot... If the conditions are not the same, the equation is not the same, so passing on that shot is the right thing to do also the caliber is irrelevant if you got a minimum of 1000 pounds of energy and you are right on target, dead is dead... JP.
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Shooting a tight ten shot group is irrelevant compared to the somewhat harder problem of putting the first shot in the middle. Differences in group size measured in inches are a rounding error compared to differences in wind drift measured in feet.
 
hawk-i said:
I would hazard a guess the average hunter wouldn't get 4 inch 10 shot groups at 100 yards in field condition. Hell, I see a lot of guys sighting in hunting rifles at the range, off a bench at 100 yards,that aren't getting 4 inch 3 shot groups.
People that partake at long range hunting are perfectionist, they have the equipment, they put in the time and they practise until they are confident in their success. And they most likely wound LESS game than the average Joe.
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You are perfectly right, it is completly unethical to assumed you will be close enough to make a clean kill... If you are sure then you are sure.... For me sure is 100% not 99%... JP.
 
Dogleg said:
Shooting a tight ten shot group is irrelevant compared to the somewhat harder problem of putting the first shot in the middle. Differences in group size measured in inches are a rounding error compared to differences in wind drift measured in feet.
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I am talking, being prepare, know exactly were your shots gonna hit @ 100-200-300-400-500-600 metres, i invest a lot of time knowing exactly were my rifle is gonna hit a those distances... This preparation give you full confidence and is a very pleasant thing to do, it is a 2 obligatory elements equation... Conditions and preparation, if this is not met, it is a no go... Tomorrow is another day... JP.
 
Dogleg said:
Shooting a tight ten shot group is irrelevant compared to the somewhat harder problem of putting the first shot in the middle. Differences in group size measured in inches are a rounding error compared to differences in wind drift measured in feet.
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Yup, I never shoot paper past 200 yards...it's all gong after that under real field conditions at a variety of distances, wind directions, inclines and shooting positions. I could care less about group size other than the rifle is capable of shooting a sufficiently tight group to be useful at extended ranges. All I care about in long-range hunting practice is hearing the gong ring. What you can do off the bench means next to nothing in the field at long ranges...that's why you rarely see serious long-range hunters at the range.
 
BC Bigbore said:
You mean a .300 Winchester Magnum has very low recoil? Interesting. The .300 magnums I've shot all seemed to have a LOT more recoil than my 7.4lb .338-06 Model 70. For elk at extreme range (past 500yrds) I'd want a minimum 175gr bullet moving at least 3000fps at the muzzle. I know you aren't a .300Mag fan but it's hard to argue with an accurate .300RUM for that type of chore. In fact, I have a co-worker who sets up in a private land alfalfa field and does that exact thing with his RUM. Has a string of six point elk to back up his ability too.
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Actually what I was getting at was that a .338-06 loaded with heavy(ish) bullets, and a case full of slow burning powder, is going to pound you if you're recoil sensitive, but it won't shoot anywhere near as flat as the .300. The OP stated he wasn't interested in a .300, so I assumed that was because he has an issue with recoil. As a result I suggested he consider a 6.5 or a 7mm on the '06 case. As for me not liking the .300, some version would be on my short list if I was contemplating a long range big game rifle, but so would a big case .338 and a big case .375.
 
sheephunter said:
Yup, I never shoot paper past 200 yards...it's all gong after that under real field conditions at a variety of distances, wind directions, inclines and shooting positions. I could care less about group size other than the rifle is capable of shooting a sufficiently tight group to be useful at extended ranges. All I care about in long-range hunting practice is hearing the gong ring. What you can do off the bench means next to nothing in the field at long ranges...that's why you rarely see serious long-range hunters at the range.
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I'm really sorry, but I have to disagree.

Knowing WHERE your rifle is going to place a cold shot is a very important part of the equation.
To find out you HAVE to minimise the human error, that can be done, to some extent at the range.
Once you control some of the variables, you can better determine where that shot will be.
Was it ammo?, was it me ? was it the wind ? was it my scope ? etc. Too many variables.
Go to the range and benchrest, remove some possibilities, find out what your rifle CAN do
and THEN once you know where that shot will be at 100 yds,200 yds,300 yds and so on
go for the steel plate, bush, what have you. Then if you miss that steel target you will have fewer
things to blame.

BTW: a 6" group at 600 yards is 1 MOA (+/-)

To maintain 1 MOA to 600 yards you better be able to shoot under .5 MOA or 1/2" at 100 yards.
( And NO.......it is not possible to have a trajectory that is more precise at 600 than 100 yards)
 
That what practice and a top rifle will do at 1000 metres, dont you agree that 600 metres is not that far to put a groups inside the 4 inch square, when conditions are there it is doable 10 out of 10 times... JP.
 
hawk-i said:
I would hazard a guess the average hunter wouldn't get 4 inch 10 shot groups at 100 yards in field condition. Hell, I see a lot of guys sighting in hunting rifles at the range, off a bench at 100 yards,that aren't getting 4 inch 3 shot groups.
People that partake at long range hunting are perfectionist, they have the equipment, they put in the time and they practise until they are confident in their success. And they most likely wound LESS game than the average Joe.
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10 rnd groups isn't a practical scenario or needed in a sitting to get an animal while hunting. Just the POI shift from heating the barrel on a regular hunting rifle will negate even the best shooters skills when shooting 10 rounds one after another. It is that first cold bore shot that counts on an animal, rarely will it stand around waiting for you to make a correction and fire again.
 
caramel said:
That what practice and a top rifle will do at 1000 metres, dont you agree that 600 metres is not that far to put a groups inside the 4 inch square, when conditions are there it is doable 10 out of 10 times... JP.
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VERY NICE INDEED !!!!

I'm also a 155 scenar/Sightron addict.
I just dont have the money for that quality of rifle, I use a Savage 12 BR
with quality barrel.
and I love to give the guys with expensive toys a run for their money,
I even make them sweat at times. All in good fun.
 
I couldn't help but notice how many guys in this thread are advising against shooting game at 600 yards. That speaks volumes to the collective inexperience chiming in here. In reality there is no big trick whatsoever to shooting first shots inside an 8 inch circle at 600 yards. If a guy is half decent he can shoot 6 inch cold bore groups at 600 and certainly better than that can be done with boring regularity.

The op is willing to build a rifle for this purpose. He is not suggesting that he wants to do it with a pencil barreled rem 700 SPS. If the guy spends about $3000 on the right rifle and $1500 more on the right scope and spends the time on the reloading bench and on the range and speaks to the right experienced long range shooters, he can build the experience he needs to make these shots - and that is if he has not already.

As Clint Eastwood said... A man has got to know his limitations.

In my opinion the best way for a guy to develop and maintain the skills to shoot long range is to do it frequently, think about it frequently and use just one really good rifle, so he learns it intimately. 2000 rounds a year at long range for 10 years will get just about anyone pretty close.
 
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sheephunter said:
Kinda makes sense to know where numbers 1,2,3 and 4 go.
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Well, you got me there.

What I was trying to say (I dont speak too good and write even worster)
Is that the range is a good place to take out the some of the human factor.
Use a good front and rear rest, let the rifle tell you where that first cold shot
will land with the ammo you are using.
But you're right, at the range I usually fire a few "dirty-up" rounds before getting down and serious.
But, knowing where that first shot hits is important, I dont want to warm up my rifle again every
target change. I can tell my rifle will shoot about 1" +/- left @300 yds if at ambient temperature
(after my dirty-up to get rid of any oil, rags, and tid bits that may be in the barrel)
So I just compensate..a tad on a cold shot, a bit less on second and back to normal after that,
it's not an exact science but it helps my first group.
I can only ASSUME a hunter relies on that first cold shot, so I can also ASSUME it must be important.
After assuming all that, I might as well ASSUME that a long range hunter has "dirtied-up" his
barrel and got rid of anything that may be lurking in there, waiting to mess up that first trajectory.

An assumption based on an assumption, followed by an assumption is called what again?
 
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