Leupold Mark2 Hunter 3-9x40mm with the LR duplex
600 yards
- Thread starter todbartell
- Start date
Leupold Mark2 Hunter 3-9x40mm with the LR duplex
- Location
- Northern BC
Cogratulation on your medium range shoot.Out here in the central flatlands 600 yds is just over there. Your choice of caliber is excellent,I have only used my mountain rifle out to 500 with 120gr. nosler BT.
shotgunjoe. What's with "central flatlands" and "Mountain rifle"?
shotgunjoe
CGN Regular
- Location
- winnipeg mb
I am so confused.....finally got back out today, shot two 3 shot groups @ 600. Wind pushed the first one right off the paper but it hit the plywood backing about 15" to the right. For the 2nd group I waited for calmer winds and it only drifted about 5", both groups looked like about 5" +/-
set up a 4L milk jug, let my buddy have first crack at it. I never got to shoot at it...
set up a 4L milk jug, let my buddy have first crack at it. I never got to shoot at it...
shotgunjoe
CGN Regular
- Location
- winnipeg mb
Good shooting!!!!
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
If you're trying to get a handle on how well your rifle/ammo is shooting, you can use the group's vertical height only, as a reasonably good indicator of the rifle's grouping ability. This is because on most ranges, wind variations have little to no effect on the bullet's vertical point of impact.
In order to be useful, and to avoid the effects of luck, firing ten to fifteen shot groups will give you a better indication of how well your setup is performing.
In your initial load development, it makes sense to just shoot three or five shots at a time. If three or five shots give bad results, firing more shots is not going to make things better. So, small numbers are shots serve the "weeding out" process perfectly well.
Once you get to the point of having decent groups with a small number of shots, it's time to fire larger numbers of shots in each group; this is to validate or to confirm the promising results that got you to this point.
Once you can get ten or more shots landing in less than a minute of vertical (so, at 600 yards this means all shots within a 6" vertical band), you're getting something worthwhile, and good enough to shoot in most rifle matches.
In order to be useful, and to avoid the effects of luck, firing ten to fifteen shot groups will give you a better indication of how well your setup is performing.
In your initial load development, it makes sense to just shoot three or five shots at a time. If three or five shots give bad results, firing more shots is not going to make things better. So, small numbers are shots serve the "weeding out" process perfectly well.
Once you get to the point of having decent groups with a small number of shots, it's time to fire larger numbers of shots in each group; this is to validate or to confirm the promising results that got you to this point.
Once you can get ten or more shots landing in less than a minute of vertical (so, at 600 yards this means all shots within a 6" vertical band), you're getting something worthwhile, and good enough to shoot in most rifle matches.
I switched to the 140 gr Berger VLD today over 41grs H100V/F210M. Didn't chrony it but 40 grs did 2600 fps last fall, so I should be around 2675 fps? Will chrony it next time out I think.
Shot only one group, 460 yards it looked like about 3-4" for 4 shots. I did get my drop figured out from 330-600 yards, so next time out I will see how these heavier bullets group at longer range. I suspect my horizontal spread of the groups will shrink with the higher BC bullet compared to my prior shooting with the 107 SMK
Shot only one group, 460 yards it looked like about 3-4" for 4 shots. I did get my drop figured out from 330-600 yards, so next time out I will see how these heavier bullets group at longer range.
I suspect my horizontal spread of the groups will shrink with the higher BC bullet compared to my prior shooting with the 107 SMK
3 shot groups at 600 yards isn't going to tell you anything conclusive about your load. Even at 100 yards, 3 shot groups have limited value. You really ought to do what rnbra suggests and fire a few 10 shot groups before drawing any conclusions.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
tb, I am glad that you are having alot of fun and tossing them out there. The rifle is doing well but I suspect you don't shoot with flags. This is the only way to learn how your rifle is doing. wind is rarely ever constant and changes will toss your bullets around giving you the impression of accuracy/inaccuracy.
If it suits you, put up a couple of sticks with 2ft of flagging tape on it. Say one 50yds from you, 300yds then right infront of the target. Might surprise you how much they wiggle around. The goal is to shoot when they are wiggling the same amount and direction.
Then compare what the flags are doing with what you see the mirage doing and surrounding vegation. Eventually, you will learn to read the mirage, then confirm with the flags, then surrounding trees/grass.
I bet once you start doing this, your groups will dramatically shrink and stay on paper.
If you can shoot into a hill and can have a buddy spot for you, that is the fastest way to learn. Get a gong in whatever size you feel comfy to start with. Hold off as you see the conditions, shoot and see where the bullet landed. Will not take too many shots to start to get a feel for doping.
I have shot at paper at LR for years and it is always a guessing game as to which shot went where under which condition. Very slow to improve.
Having a way to indicate where each shot went is great learning too.
Enjoy the journey...
Jerry
If it suits you, put up a couple of sticks with 2ft of flagging tape on it. Say one 50yds from you, 300yds then right infront of the target. Might surprise you how much they wiggle around. The goal is to shoot when they are wiggling the same amount and direction.
Then compare what the flags are doing with what you see the mirage doing and surrounding vegation. Eventually, you will learn to read the mirage, then confirm with the flags, then surrounding trees/grass.
I bet once you start doing this, your groups will dramatically shrink and stay on paper.
If you can shoot into a hill and can have a buddy spot for you, that is the fastest way to learn. Get a gong in whatever size you feel comfy to start with. Hold off as you see the conditions, shoot and see where the bullet landed. Will not take too many shots to start to get a feel for doping.
I have shot at paper at LR for years and it is always a guessing game as to which shot went where under which condition. Very slow to improve.
Having a way to indicate where each shot went is great learning too.
Enjoy the journey...
Jerry
Its exactly that: a starting point. At 600 yards, wind can open up a perfectly good load. 3 shots isn't going to tell you if its good or bad. The load should have already been proven at 100 and 300 yards with a higher number off rounds before moving on to 600 or 1000 yards anyway.
thanks for the comments guys
my rifle shoots most any load I have ever tried into 3/4moa if I do my part. Im not really trying to test handloads, I am just wanting to send some downrange and learn as I go. I did make some windflags, got one set up @ 200y, 350y, & 600y, and I do try to shoot during consistent winds. I will stick to 3-6 round groups for now to keep costs down.
my rifle shoots most any load I have ever tried into 3/4moa if I do my part. Im not really trying to test handloads, I am just wanting to send some downrange and learn as I go. I did make some windflags, got one set up @ 200y, 350y, & 600y, and I do try to shoot during consistent winds.
I will stick to 3-6 round groups for now to keep costs down.Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
tb, not sure what type of terrain you shoot on but where I am, there are alot of winds coming from various hills. You might find that having a flag 50 to 100yds beyond your target might prove helpful to indicate oncoming winds/downdrafts/ whatever.
Personally, that is the challenge. Being able to diagnose the winds and hit a reasonably sized target first shot at LR.
Or at least figure out what correction I need to hit it on the second....
The third....
OK, the fourth forsure....
Time to go kick the gong over
Jerry
Personally, that is the challenge. Being able to diagnose the winds and hit a reasonably sized target first shot at LR.
Or at least figure out what correction I need to hit it on the second....
The third....
OK, the fourth forsure....
Time to go kick the gong over
Jerry
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Wind factors into three locations, where you are shooting from, downrange between you and the target, and in the target proximity.
Depending on the time of day and weather, learning to read visible mirage, may be the best indicator of wind speed/direction.
Depending on the time of day and weather, learning to read visible mirage, may be the best indicator of wind speed/direction.
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today was my first attempt at 750 yards
ammo was 140 gr Berger VLD
Elevation was 15.5MOA
best group was 4" 3 shot (9" drift)
finished with a 7" 4 shot with 140 gr Hornady Amax (Dialed 1MOA right for wind)
The 9x scope on my gun is starting to limit me, although I'm almost out of elevation anyways (can only go to 24moa). I'll have to dig up some better targets for next time out, something with a bigger bullseye
This long range shooting is like crack
ammo was 140 gr Berger VLD
Elevation was 15.5MOA
best group was 4" 3 shot (9" drift)
finished with a 7" 4 shot with 140 gr Hornady Amax (Dialed 1MOA right for wind)
The 9x scope on my gun is starting to limit me, although I'm almost out of elevation anyways (can only go to 24moa). I'll have to dig up some better targets for next time out, something with a bigger bullseye
This long range shooting is like crack
