624i vs M5Xi vs PMII vs Razor Help

lowell

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Need help deciding between.

Kahles, 624i 6-24x56 $3670
Steiner, M5Xi 5-25x56 $4110
S&B, PMII 5-25x56 $3850-4235
Vortex, Razor HD gen 2 4.5-27x56 $3600

Going on a 7mm rem mag, just for shooting paper and steel not likely to be hunting or competing.

If you've used two or more of these scopes how did they compare? Likes/dislikes

How'd they compare optically through the entire zoom range, how'd the turrets feel ect.
Whatever info you can think of really that might help make the decision easier.
:bangHead:
 
All great optics. I have had everything except for the steiner.

First up the vortex. Great glass, great reticle, and can't beat the warranty. I was not a huge fan of the way you have to sight the optic in. Having to take the cap off the turret, undo the set screws, and turn in interior dial was a pain IMO. Some love it, but I did not.

Next the S&B. Top of the line in every way except the p4l reticle. Again, personal opinion. As far as glass and functionality goes 10/10.

And finally the k624i. This is my top pick. Glass is amazing, price is great, and the reticle is near perfect. I am a moa shooter so I went with the moak reticle.

You will be more then happy with any of the above.
 
My 2 cents:

1) Kahles. What badbadger said. I have 2, getting a third.
2) S&B. Have one, selling it. Glass is top level, but turrets turn the wrong way, don't like the hard clicks at every 10th click and the reticle is designed for a 2-way range, not punching paper.
3) Vortex. Very popular, never used one.
4) Steiner. Never even seen one.
 
I have the Kahles, S&B , Tangent Theta and I just ordered 2 Delta Optics Stykers ( 4.5-30x56 and 5-50x56 ). So I will give my 2 cents once I have a chance to evaluate them.
Right now
1) Tangent Theta but the price is insane
2) Kahles because of the reticle and I prefer MOA
3) S&B awesome scope but kinda outdated now

I am anxious to get my hands on the Delta Stykers..
 
My 2 cents:

1) Kahles. What badbadger said. I have 2, getting a third.
2) S&B. Have one, selling it. Glass is top level, but turrets turn the wrong way, don't like the hard clicks at every 10th click and the reticle is designed for a 2-way range, not punching paper.
3) Vortex. Very popular, never used one.
4) Steiner. Never even seen one.

Sorry to break it to you, but you ordered the wrong SB if your turrets are turning the wrong way.. you can choose ccw or cw. While ccw being the standard in USA.

You can always disable the hard clicks by removing the turret and turning the pin. But I wouldn't do that, I just got a tangent theta instead.
 
All great optics. I have had everything except for the steiner.

First up the vortex. Great glass, great reticle, and can't beat the warranty. I was not a huge fan of the way you have to sight the optic in. Having to take the cap off the turret, undo the set screws, and turn in interior dial was a pain IMO. Some love it, but I did not.

Next the S&B. Top of the line in every way except the p4l reticle. Again, personal opinion. As far as glass and functionality goes 10/10.

And finally the k624i. This is my top pick. Glass is amazing, price is great, and the reticle is near perfect. I am a moa shooter so I went with the moak reticle.

You will be more then happy with any of the above.

which one(s) did you kept?
 
^ Hmmm.. would have liked to have known while reading your blog. Can you provide details? I ask because your posts were what convinced me to pick one up in late October. Am I happy with it? So far, but it hasn't been mounted yet, still waiting on the rifle it was going to be mounted on. For me, it came down to the Kahles 624i or the NF ATACR 7-35 (MIL-C reticle) but there was no ETA on the new NF model so I went with the Kahles. Details about what went wrong would really be appreciated, as I bought it from the same place as you did.

Thanks,
 
I have the Kahles 624i as well and had some QC issues with mine after the first Range trip. A speck of dust showed up on the reticle and it had to be sent in to Swaro. They dealt with it very fast and I received a call from them saying they would be shipping me a new one that day. I'd hope that Kahles has this QC thing figured out cause imo they are the best scope in the high end glass game and I will buy more.
 
^ Hmmm.. would have liked to have known while reading your blog. Can you provide details? I ask because your posts were what convinced me to pick one up in late October. Am I happy with it? So far, but it hasn't been mounted yet, still waiting on the rifle it was going to be mounted on. For me, it came down to the Kahles 624i or the NF ATACR 7-35 (MIL-C reticle) but there was no ETA on the new NF model so I went with the Kahles. Details about what went wrong would really be appreciated, as I bought it from the same place as you did.

Thanks,

OK - so this is for all who are interested: Firstly, I have been criticized for 'going public' about QC issues - many people and not just dealers would rather sweep this under the carpet so as to not hurt sales -and so I don't expect this post to make me any friends but here goes - apologies in advance for being a longish read:

Scope #1 - which was the subject of a favorable review on my blog. After the blog post was written I continued to use the scope but over the Winter 2016/17 when the snow was down I saw purple haze around trees against a snowy background. I believe this is called "Chromatic Aberration and, while not a big deal for many, it is a concern for me at price points North of, say, $2500 ( for those that don't know, the Kahles 624i is approx $3600 ).

Scope#2- This scope, acquired at the same time as I acquired my NF ATACR 5-25x56, actually sat unmounted waiting for a rifle build. At some point post my acquisition of this glass Omer inquired as to whether I'd used this scope or not and when I said it was BNIB waiting for a rifle he asked if I'd be open to doing a deal with him. Apparently he had another 624i scope - destined for a customer back East - that had three tiny marks on the bottom - underneath the turrets -and he was concerned that these purely cosmetic blemishes would be unacceptable to that customer. I figured as follows: a pure cosmetic blemish that couldn't be seen on a scope when mounted wouldn't bother me; Omer had been very good to me and I was happy to help out; and I was likely to get a discount on something else anyway so it wasn't pure altruism on my part anyway ! I took my BNIB scope to his store prepared to exchange it for the other BNIB with a cosmetic blemish. Omers 'back East' customer would be happy, I'd be happy and Omer would be happy.....ah, not so. As Omer was carefully examining the scope I'd brought in, he observed that there was a bit of debris on the reticle - at the 6 O Clock mark - I'd not seen this of course and it was totally his 'good catch'. Ooops. So ......now not only was there was no scope for the 'back East' customer but my pristine BNIB was not so pristine after all. I was pretty disappointed that Kahles QC hadn't caught the debris that Omer saw ( and I then confirmed ) but still in play was the other BNIB with 3 little marks under the turrets which I took home as - like I said - 3 tiny little marks were not an issue to me. This scope is Scope #3

Scope #3
- this scope sat until my build was ready. October 2017 comes around and I mounted it on new rifle and looked out at the hayfield out back and.... NO !! ... at the 2 O Clock position the was a "light spot" or "smudge"; hard to see - the light had to be just right - but it was there, it sure as hell wasn't my imagination !. Well, at this point I was simply done with Kahles and so off I went back to Omer's store. Poor guy, had just got back from a trip to Europe, was likely jet-lagged as all heck and I'm there whining and moaning about Kahles QC. Anyway, the scope was out of my possession - I was simply done with this manufacturer and Omer traded me out of it for a combo of a Steiner T5Xi and cash.

Now at this point I'd like to make it totally clear that throughout this process Omer went above and beyond. He was absolutely great to deal with and none of the issues were in any way his fault. Omer did his level best to look after me and my best guess is that there was a 'bad batch' of these scopes that slipped through Swaro/Kahles QC and I was just unlucky. Regardless of how or why I observed problems though, the fact remains that I've had three Kahles 624i's in my possession and all three were, in some way, defective so my confidence in the brand is shot. This doesn't mean you shouldn't buy one or that you should buy one - it is just one guys experience. Yes, I have also heard that my experience is too small a sample size to be relevant BUT here is the thing: I have the following quality scopes: 2x S+B PMii, 3 x Vortex Razor II, 2x NF ATACR, 1x U S Optics and the following mid-range scopes: 1x Sightron SVSS, 1x Athlon Cronus BTR, 1x Steiner T5xi, 2x Burris XTR, 5 x Bushnell DMR/HDMR. Lots of glass eh - lots of money's worth of glass and, while I like some more than others, guess how many have lens, glass, turrets, tracking, or other problems ??? ....ZERO, yes, not a single one. So, am I right to speak up about my experience with Kahles ? It's your money, you decide.
 
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OK - so this is for all who are interested: Firstly, I have been criticized for 'going public' about QC issues - dealers would rather sweep this under the carpet so as to not hurt sales -and so I don't expect this post to make me any friends but here goes - apologies in advance for being a longish read:

Scope #1 - which was the subject of a favorable review on my blog. After the blog post was written I continued to use the scope but over the Winter 2016/17 when the snow was down I saw purple haze around trees against a snowy background. I believe this is called "Chromatic Aberration and while not a big deal for many it is for me at price points North of say $2500 ( the Kahles 624i is approx $3600 ).

Scope#2- This scope, acquired at the same time as I acquired my NF ATACR 5-25x56, actually sat unmounted waiting for a rifle build. At some point post my acquisition Omer inquired as to whether I'd used this scope and when I said it was BNIB waiting for a rifle he asked if I'd be open o doing a deal with him. Apparently he had another 624i scope - destined for a customer back East - that had three tiny marks on the bottom underneath the turrets and he was concerned that these purely cosmetic blemishes would be unacceptable to that customer. I figured: a pure cosmetic blemish that couldn't be seen on a scope when mounted wouldn't bother me; Omer had been very good to me and I was happy to help out - also I was likely to get a discount on something else anyway so it wasn't pure altruism on my part anyway !. I took my BNIB scope to his store prepared to exchange it for the other BNIB with a cosmetic blemish. Omers 'back East' customer would be happy, I'd be happy and Omer would be happy.....ah, not so. As Omer was carefully examining the scope I'd brought in, he observed that there was a bit of debris on the reticle - at the 6 O Clock mark - I'd not seen this of course and it was totally his 'good catch'. Ooops. So now not only was there was no scope for the 'back East' customer but my pristine BNIB was not so pristine after all. I was pretty disappointed that Kahles QC hadn't caught the debris that Omer saw ( and I then confirmed ) but all was not lost as still in play was the other BNIB with 3 little marks under the turrets which I took home as - like I said - 3 tiny little marks were not an issue to me. This scope is Scope #3

Scope #3
- this scope sat until my build was ready. October 2017 comes around and I mounted it on new rifle and looked out at the hayfield out back and.... #### ... at the 2 O Clock position the was a "light spot" or "smudge"; hard to see - the light had to be just right - but it was there, it sure as hell wasn't my imagination !. Well, at this point I was simply done with Kahles and so off I went back to Omer's store. Poor guy, had just got back from a trip to Europe, was likely jet-lagged as all heck and I'm there whining and moaning about Kahles QC. Anyway, the scope was out of my possession - I was simply done with this manufacturer and I was traded out of it for a combo of a Steiner T5Xi and cash.

I'd like to make it totally clear that throughout this process Omer went above and beyond. He was great to deal with and none of the issues were in any way his fault. My best guess is that there was a 'bad batch' of these scopes that slipped through and I was just unlucky but the fact remains that I've had three Kahles 624i's in my possession and all three were, in some way, defective so my confidence in the brand is shot. This doesn't mean you shouldn't buy one or that you should buy one - it is just one guys experience.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to respond.I have one but I have only very briefly lined it up so to speak. I will get a chance to fully evaluate it in the spring.However from my brief time with the scope it did look good. I just got it from Omer in late October 2017 so hopefully mine doesn't have any issues. I have purchased scopes form Peter at Hirsch Precison, Omer at Precision optics and Jerry at Mystic Precision. All have been simply outstanding to deal with.
 
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