68gr (or so) .224 projectiles
- Thread starter Necroman99
- Start date
Yup. I shoot HRN 52gr BTHP Match into pretty much 1/4MOA groups at up to 400 metres in dead calm but if the wind is blowing around I have a tough time keeping it within 3MOA. The 69gr SMK works much better in the wind but it too is far from immune to gusty conditions. In general, the lighter the bullet the more it gets blown around. Increased velocity can only reduce some of that. My rifle is a 5r with 1:9 barrel twist. Bullets into the 75gr territory are on the edge of being unstable at that twist rate from my testing. I have never shot anything less than 52gr out of it so I have no idea about them.
Where where you guys last week when someone kept posting and was adamant that 223's projectiles became unstable past 200 yards *sigh*
The campro's are nice and cheap, but I have relegated them to blasting ammo and not something I use when accuracy matters. I would definitely consider a smaller round for varminting at closer to 100 yards (especially with a 1 in 9 twist). Some friends have had great luck with Nosler varmageddon's, but I think they are more $$ then other options being tossed about in this thread.
The campro's are nice and cheap, but I have relegated them to blasting ammo and not something I use when accuracy matters. I would definitely consider a smaller round for varminting at closer to 100 yards (especially with a 1 in 9 twist). Some friends have had great luck with Nosler varmageddon's, but I think they are more $$ then other options being tossed about in this thread.
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If you want an inexpensive bulk bullet, the Hornady 55 grain SPFB might be worth trying. They are priced comparably to Hornady's 55 grain FMJ, but should be more accurate.
The accuracy you got from the Campro bullets is typical in my experience - OK for putting together cheap blasting ammo, but not for anything requiring precision. I would not rule out 55 grain bullets solely on the basis of your experience with the Campro ones.
The accuracy you got from the Campro bullets is typical in my experience - OK for putting together cheap blasting ammo, but not for anything requiring precision. I would not rule out 55 grain bullets solely on the basis of your experience with the Campro ones.
I would love to be able to shoot on that range where the laws of physics do not apply. In most of the known universe, the heavier bullet with a decent shape (not a round nose) will have more retained velocity and energy and less wind drift.
Just to double check my assumptions, I ran a ballistic program on the Hornady 55 FMJ, their 68 Match and their 75 gr Match bullets at the appropriate velocity for each bullet.
At 500 yards the 75 gr bullet was faster than the 55 gr bullet and had almost double the retained energy.
This is consistent with the ground hogs and kangaroos I have shot at 200 to 500 yards.
Emerson, I will on this one... but the laws of physics apparently went on vacation in Quebec. Maybe they go to Florida like everything old seems to out here.
I also never said that 55 grain FMJ would beat the heavier match loads. Specifically said I don't know about 55 grain bullets actually, and that the lighter bullets would best the 68gr. match. 55 gran FMJ is hot garbage and the worst thing to compare anything to.
Try a 53 grain bullet with a BC of .290 or .303 if its the Nosler Varmageddon (and that BC seems accurate) at 3400 FPS. When I switched to this load, a gentleman at The High Road and elsewhere had posed 18 inches of wind drift at 10 MPH full value with the above mentioned bullet at 400 yards starting off at only 3130 fps. I didn't believe it. Now I do. This is a much different animal than the .240-.250 or so BC of the 55 gr FMJ. Since the only Hornady ammo that moves a 75 gr match bullet at 2900 fps is their Superformance load, it would be much more of a fair comparison to put it up against the 53gr Vmax Superformance load advertised at 3450 fps or so.
Drop also requires way less clicks than the heavier match bullets do. It was running about 18 inches low at 400 meters from a 200 meter zero.
To be honest though, one source of error from the shooting I was doing was to shoot the match loads from a 20" barreled rifle, so they were likely not hitting speeds they could be, like 2900 fps if thats actually what they end up running and not just what the box says. By the same token you can get more than 3400 FPS from the lighter bullets if we are loading a powder like Benchmark and using a longer barrel too! But I'd still bet that with the longer barrels in both cases, the 53 gr high BC bullets at least tie them, and do beat them for drop, handily.
I also never said that 55 grain FMJ would beat the heavier match loads. Specifically said I don't know about 55 grain bullets actually, and that the lighter bullets would best the 68gr. match. 55 gran FMJ is hot garbage and the worst thing to compare anything to.
Try a 53 grain bullet with a BC of .290 or .303 if its the Nosler Varmageddon (and that BC seems accurate) at 3400 FPS. When I switched to this load, a gentleman at The High Road and elsewhere had posed 18 inches of wind drift at 10 MPH full value with the above mentioned bullet at 400 yards starting off at only 3130 fps. I didn't believe it. Now I do. This is a much different animal than the .240-.250 or so BC of the 55 gr FMJ. Since the only Hornady ammo that moves a 75 gr match bullet at 2900 fps is their Superformance load, it would be much more of a fair comparison to put it up against the 53gr Vmax Superformance load advertised at 3450 fps or so.
Drop also requires way less clicks than the heavier match bullets do. It was running about 18 inches low at 400 meters from a 200 meter zero.
To be honest though, one source of error from the shooting I was doing was to shoot the match loads from a 20" barreled rifle, so they were likely not hitting speeds they could be, like 2900 fps if thats actually what they end up running and not just what the box says. By the same token you can get more than 3400 FPS from the lighter bullets if we are loading a powder like Benchmark and using a longer barrel too! But I'd still bet that with the longer barrels in both cases, the 53 gr high BC bullets at least tie them, and do beat them for drop, handily.
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The 53 gr bullet has an excellent compromise of wind and elevation because it has a BC of 0.3 and lots of velocity.
My notes show 43 different load tests with different 53 gr bullets. Best velocity was about 3375 fps
This bullet out performs the 55gr Hornady 55FMJ. But the wind drift is not quite as good as the 68 or 75gr match bullet at any distance.
Velocity does not trump BC.
Yotarunner
CGN Regular
- Location
- Eastern Alberta
To the OP. Are you shooting gophers or groundhogs? I don't have experience with groundhogs so I won't comment on that but I can tell you with experience that match bullets and fmj are extremely underwhelming for gophers.
If I were you I would choose any of the 55-60 gr tipped or soft point varmint bullets (vmax are my favorite) and try them again.
Secondly I would get off that lead sled. Lead sleds are absolutely terrible rests for getting accurate groups and may be the cause of your problems.
If I were you I would choose any of the 55-60 gr tipped or soft point varmint bullets (vmax are my favorite) and try them again.
Secondly I would get off that lead sled. Lead sleds are absolutely terrible rests for getting accurate groups and may be the cause of your problems.
Necroman99
CGN Regular
- Location
- Whitby Ontario
I don't know...richardson ground squirrels is what my buddy said...ultimately just little rodent things. LOL. It's just a pipe dream right now so it could be anything. Which brings me to the question of what you mean by underwhelming? I guess I'll show my ignorance here...I understand the differences in bullet construction and whatnot. I understand why we use softpoints rather than FMJ to hunt deer. My attitude was that with varmint hunting whatever is accurate and perhaps also cheap is good ammo. Moreover, I kind of felt like if I hit something that size with a 223 it'll die one way or the other. Perhaps I need an education.
To your point about the lead sled...that has never been my experience. My lead sled is always how I do load development. It takes the human factor out of the shooting and shows me exactly what the ammo/gun can do. Once I'm happy on the sled I shoot groups without it for sure but I've never had problems producing great groups with it...probably my best groups (they aren't really MY groups mind)
Yotarunner
CGN Regular
- Location
- Eastern Alberta
For reference here is a gopher (Richardson's ground squirrel) encountering a 40gr vmax at 50 yards. Match bullets just and fmj just poke a hole through with very little fanfare leading you to believe you missed. As for the lead sled I have tested with my super accurate varmint guns and found groups suffer quite a bit when compared to a proper front and rear rest.
Hahaha! I guess you don’t shoot much. Heavies with a higher BC will outperform a lighter bullet in the wind every time.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
On youtube, search "red mist".... then you will understand what the difference is.
The varmint is dispatched... true. It is the process that is being chosen with ultra fragile bullets.
Ultimately, it boils down to muzzle and impact velocity. go fast enough and every 22cal bullet will come apart ... vigorously.
Jerry
No. By 100 yards the heavier bullet is faster.
A 223 40 gr starts at 3550 fps.
A 68 gr at only 3050 fps.
By 100 yards the 68 is faster than a 40 and the difference gets bigger as they go down range.
A ping pong ball never beats a golf ball.
