6Br or 6.5+47
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The 6BR is almost unmatched in its inherent accuracy. It is very easy to make work and there are many component choices. It is the cartridge to beat in 300 ISSF and 3-600 F-Class. It is accurate to well beyond 1000m
6.5X47 is the designation for a number of very different cartridges, so I'll assume you mean the 6.5X47 lapua.
This is a very popular chambering and uses heavier bullets than the 6BR with BC's that are generally higher than the 6mm offerings. I have never heard anyone curse and swear because they could not get a 6BR to work, but I have spoken with a few excellent shooters that have been frustrated with their 6547L's and trying to find a recipe that worked. When they work, they work very well and are a close rival the 6BR. If it matters (and personally I use lapua brass anyway) there is only one maker of the brass. We have a couple of them that show up for local matches.
In terms of loads, it uses roughly 25% more powder than the 6BR.
I have been eyeing the "Long dasher" (6-6.5X47L improved) for a while now...
6.5X47 is the designation for a number of very different cartridges, so I'll assume you mean the 6.5X47 lapua.
This is a very popular chambering and uses heavier bullets than the 6BR with BC's that are generally higher than the 6mm offerings. I have never heard anyone curse and swear because they could not get a 6BR to work, but I have spoken with a few excellent shooters that have been frustrated with their 6547L's and trying to find a recipe that worked. When they work, they work very well and are a close rival the 6BR. If it matters (and personally I use lapua brass anyway) there is only one maker of the brass. We have a couple of them that show up for local matches.
In terms of loads, it uses roughly 25% more powder than the 6BR.
I have been eyeing the "Long dasher" (6-6.5X47L improved) for a while now...
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both are very accurate cartridges,( like comparing a hare and a rabbit) as for load data on most of the 6.5's look up some of Zack Smith's articles and load data... he's highly respected in the tactcal world in the U.S. and has done extensive reseach and testing on a number of the 6.5's ( 260 Rem, 6.5 Lapua, 6.5 Grendal, 6.5 x 284, and the Creedmore).. my next build (this Wed) will be a 260 Rem (using one of Ian's Kreiger Barrels)...
Mystic Precision
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Both can be equally accurate so you need to focus on other parameters like LR ballistics, recoil, and costs.
The 6BR is very well established and there are lots of equipment to load it. The 6.5X47L is sold on a much lower volume so things like dies are harder to get and when you do, bring $$$$
The 6BR has a case capacity that works very well with the common 105/107gr VLD bullets. Not super fast, but fast enough. Very low recoil. Excellent barrel life. It has been one of my favorite accuracy chamberings.
What you give up is BC. The larger cals offer a higher BC that will give you a tangible reduction in wind drift the further you go.
What you give up to use these larger cal bullets is increased recoil. Also, your shooting cost is slightly higher. Barrel life can also be shorter.
In the 6.5 family, the 6.5X47L is the smallest commonly used LR cartridge. The 6.5 BR is rarely if ever seen anymore. In my opinion, the Lapua is simply too small to get the job done with the heaviest 6.5 bullets. With the 120 to 130gr bullets, it does ok but runs out of steam with the 139 to 142's. I believe its design goal was to excell at 300m competition using 123gr bullets. To reduce wind drift vs the 6BR at this distance.
There is a difference but not much and you do have to put up with more recoil. Also, the bigger cal comes in handy when shooting for score. I would stick with an improved 6BR if I was in this type of comp.
So I consider it best to separate the two. The 6BR is one of the nicest 6mm's to use. A bit small but enough to get the job done for most shooters. Some who choose the 6mm for LR shooting are going to larger cases like the 6XC, 6 - 6.5X47L, improved 6BR's. Gives them more speed with the lighter bullets and nice velocity with the 115's.
I think we will start to see more interest in the 260Rem then in the 6.5X47L as shooters start to find they can't get the speed they want without the rig being really finicky and prone to pressure ailments. I expect to see a steady increase in interest in the improved 260Rs as well. Why there isn't an improved 260R wildcat with a 30deg shoulder sweeping the tactical and other mag fed shooting ranks is one of life's little mysteries (my Mystic uses a 40deg shoulder and not what I would suggest for mag feeding).
The 6.5 Lapua will do at elevated pressures what a 260R will do at standard pressures. Run the 260R to the same pressures and it will walk away from the Lapua. Same problem lies with the 6.5 Creedmore and this is bigger then the Lapua. Throw the Swede into the mix and it will walk away from all of these handily.
A faster 6.5 shooting 139 to 142gr VLD will offer a substantial reduction in wind drift vs the 6BR at LR.
You haven't given any indications about your other requirements so it is hard to say one is better then the other. Each chambering has its niche where it works well. Just have to decide if that niche suits your needs.
Jerry
The 6BR is very well established and there are lots of equipment to load it. The 6.5X47L is sold on a much lower volume so things like dies are harder to get and when you do, bring $$$$
The 6BR has a case capacity that works very well with the common 105/107gr VLD bullets. Not super fast, but fast enough. Very low recoil. Excellent barrel life. It has been one of my favorite accuracy chamberings.
What you give up is BC. The larger cals offer a higher BC that will give you a tangible reduction in wind drift the further you go.
What you give up to use these larger cal bullets is increased recoil. Also, your shooting cost is slightly higher. Barrel life can also be shorter.
In the 6.5 family, the 6.5X47L is the smallest commonly used LR cartridge. The 6.5 BR is rarely if ever seen anymore. In my opinion, the Lapua is simply too small to get the job done with the heaviest 6.5 bullets. With the 120 to 130gr bullets, it does ok but runs out of steam with the 139 to 142's. I believe its design goal was to excell at 300m competition using 123gr bullets. To reduce wind drift vs the 6BR at this distance.
There is a difference but not much and you do have to put up with more recoil. Also, the bigger cal comes in handy when shooting for score. I would stick with an improved 6BR if I was in this type of comp.
So I consider it best to separate the two. The 6BR is one of the nicest 6mm's to use. A bit small but enough to get the job done for most shooters. Some who choose the 6mm for LR shooting are going to larger cases like the 6XC, 6 - 6.5X47L, improved 6BR's. Gives them more speed with the lighter bullets and nice velocity with the 115's.
I think we will start to see more interest in the 260Rem then in the 6.5X47L as shooters start to find they can't get the speed they want without the rig being really finicky and prone to pressure ailments. I expect to see a steady increase in interest in the improved 260Rs as well. Why there isn't an improved 260R wildcat with a 30deg shoulder sweeping the tactical and other mag fed shooting ranks is one of life's little mysteries (my Mystic uses a 40deg shoulder and not what I would suggest for mag feeding).
The 6.5 Lapua will do at elevated pressures what a 260R will do at standard pressures. Run the 260R to the same pressures and it will walk away from the Lapua. Same problem lies with the 6.5 Creedmore and this is bigger then the Lapua. Throw the Swede into the mix and it will walk away from all of these handily.
A faster 6.5 shooting 139 to 142gr VLD will offer a substantial reduction in wind drift vs the 6BR at LR.
You haven't given any indications about your other requirements so it is hard to say one is better then the other. Each chambering has its niche where it works well. Just have to decide if that niche suits your needs.
Jerry
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as for an improved version of the 260 Rem in the tactical world, Terry Cross, well known tactical rifle smith in the US chambered a whack of rifles in 260 AI.. accurate barrel life was around 1500-1800 rounds.. as a result he only chambers the AI version (seldom) for special orders.. his Surgeon action builds in straight 260 are highly sought after and used extensively in the tactical world... perhaps other case mods would produce better barrel life results.. for those interested, Terry recently won first place in the Snipers Hide Cup with one of his rifles chambered in 260 Rem...
Disker: I shoot the 6.5 x 47 Lupua as my choice between the 6mmBr and 6.5 caliber. I have found the 6.5 to be very easy to tune and the loads with various bullet weights easy to find. My current load uses 130 Bergers and H4350 powder. I have given out this load to several people and all of us have found it to be extremely accurate. I feel that it is fully equal to the 6mmBr. We "feel" that in the wind it is superior to the 6mmBR and drifts less.
However, would I start with this caliber? The answer is "no" I wouldn't. Go with the 6mmBR. I am now planning to be using the 6.5 strictly for a windly day rifle and using my 223's for calm days. The reason is recoil. It is simply easier to shoot the cartridges with less recoil than ones with the heavier recoil. Even ones with as light as recoil as the 6.5 x 47L. Remember that 'F' class is an accuracy game.
I feel that Mystic maybe correct in recommending that the 260 or 6.5 x 55 possibly maybe the better choice for a specialist rifle for over 300 meters. The 6.5 x 47 won't shoot the 140 Bergers as fast as these cartridges and "if" you can get the accuracy from them then they maybe the slightly better choice.
Check out the B.C. of the various bullets and you very quickly narrow down the bullet choice to the 130 and 140 Bergers. The 6.5 x 47 shoots the 130 very well at about 2900 fps but the rest shoot the 140's at the same or slightly better.
There really isn't that much difference when you run the numbers but the difference is there.
Steve
However, would I start with this caliber? The answer is "no" I wouldn't. Go with the 6mmBR. I am now planning to be using the 6.5 strictly for a windly day rifle and using my 223's for calm days. The reason is recoil. It is simply easier to shoot the cartridges with less recoil than ones with the heavier recoil. Even ones with as light as recoil as the 6.5 x 47L. Remember that 'F' class is an accuracy game.
I feel that Mystic maybe correct in recommending that the 260 or 6.5 x 55 possibly maybe the better choice for a specialist rifle for over 300 meters. The 6.5 x 47 won't shoot the 140 Bergers as fast as these cartridges and "if" you can get the accuracy from them then they maybe the slightly better choice.
Check out the B.C. of the various bullets and you very quickly narrow down the bullet choice to the 130 and 140 Bergers. The 6.5 x 47 shoots the 130 very well at about 2900 fps but the rest shoot the 140's at the same or slightly better.
There really isn't that much difference when you run the numbers but the difference is there.
Steve
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I think the main stumbling block with the 40deg wildcat is that it doesn't stack in some mags. Been playing with the new Savage Center feed mag. LOTS of room to house 3" OAL cartridges and the center feed eliminates the feeding problem some staggered maged actions have.
But you just can't stick alot of cases in the mag before it hangs up. Never tried an AI or other 10rd mags so can't say if these would also hang up. Wouldn't surprise me though.
That is likely why the 260R is so popular - IT WILL FEED out of any common set up. Although I still think a slight reduction in body taper and a 30deg shoulder will also work and help brass last longer. May not matter...
As for barrel life, there is precious little difference between the reg and AI versions. The biggest reason I went with the sharp shoulder was better control of case growth under high pressures. Case capacity isn't increased alot. However, case growth is greatly reduced so brass pretty much lasts the life of the barrel.... or two (proper annealng of course).
I am glad to hear that other cals besides the 308 are being used in tactical shoots. Once you take a 6.5 out and shoot it in the wind, you will wonder why the 308 still exists in competition...if you don't have to shoot it.
Jerry
PS, if recoil was not a problem, we would all be shooting 180gr 7mm Bergers at 2900fps. Now that is an awesome wind bucking set up. OUCH!!!!
I have a 6.5 X 47L "sporter" using an untrued TC Icon action with a 24" #2 Gaillard barrel (with .254" freebore and .292 neck designed to shoot 120MK's) in the factory Hougue stock. I am not a "competion" shooter and don't have a chrony. The 120MK's give me fairly consistent 1/2" groups @ 100M using 37.0gr of RE 15. I borrowed the reamer from a friend who shoots with a benchrest rifle...his groups are usually one hole and I suspect are mostly in the 2's and 3's.
The Icon has a single stack detach mag and feeds my 6.5 X 47L without any issues.
The Icon has a single stack detach mag and feeds my 6.5 X 47L without any issues.
Although I have no experiance with the 6mmbr, I cant say enough good things about the 6.5 X 47 Lapua. It does not seem to matter what powder charge or bullet I try, they all shoot very good. I suspect Nirvana lies somewhere between 37-38Gr of RL-15 and a 130Gr berger.
Depends on the barrel. There is a fellow at our club that has just set-back his BR at 3700 rounds. With a good cut barrel you should be able to enjoy 2500-3000 accurate rounds with a moderate load.
The 6.5 Lapua would be slightly less as it has a higher ratio of case capacity to bullet cross sectional area.
The 6.5 Lapua would be slightly less as it has a higher ratio of case capacity to bullet cross sectional area.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
6BR
Jerry
Jerry
Propaganda aside, this is a picture of a typical 6BR group. (The group on the left is 5 thou jam, the one on the right is 10 thou.) Seriously. This is an incredibly accurate cartridge.
I was re-load developing for seating depth and temperature on the weekend, and with my 1048-round 6BR I was able to shoot three consecutive 5-shot .2" groups at 100M. It is the cartridge to beat in 3 - 600M F-Class competition.
I was re-load developing for seating depth and temperature on the weekend, and with my 1048-round 6BR I was able to shoot three consecutive 5-shot .2" groups at 100M. It is the cartridge to beat in 3 - 600M F-Class competition.
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Thats some nice shootin Obtunded! My 6Br Krieger has shot plenty of groups like the one on the left, and even a couple of ones like the right and I very seldom can do my part, it is truly an awsome cartridge! Thumbs up to KRIEGER barrels! Since I have a 6br already and a shiny 6.5 Krieger 1-8.5 Twist blank in my closet I am going to try a 6.5x47 Lapua also. Disker you can shoot them both side by side and then make your mind up.
