6mm br Norma vs 308 win.
- Thread starter soditide
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paperslayer
Regular
- Location
- Chilliwack
6BR is the single most accurate centerfire cartrige next to the short range 6PPC. It is accurate to well beyond 1000 yards. It is also extremely easy to make work well. It was designed from the ground up to be a super accurate target round. The 308 is a NATO machine gun round.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
True. The .308 is strangely similar to a French round from the late 1920s. It is very effective for military purposes, but as has been repeated, the .308 is not necessarily the most accurate cartridge compared to the benchrest-proven alternatives.
paperslayer
Regular
- Location
- Chilliwack
I disagree. Lots of 6BR's are top dog in long range competition. it is all about who is pulling the trigger. There are some world class shooters in the Kamloops area and another in Vancouver (Denis Lapierre) that dominate with 6BR.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I have been witness to some amazing shooting by 6BR and Dasher lead slingers at LR. Amazing given the conditions and how lousy the rest of us were doing.
BUT... there is no replacement for displacement.
If the debate is about 1000yds F class competition when there can be small cows flying by, bigger is better.
I sincerely doubt there will be a single rifle under 6.5mm at Raton shooting in F Open especially if the winds keep in the 20 to 30 kph range.
I know there will be at least 1 223 shooting in F TR but that is another long story
Jerry
BUT... there is no replacement for displacement.
If the debate is about 1000yds F class competition when there can be small cows flying by, bigger is better.
I sincerely doubt there will be a single rifle under 6.5mm at Raton shooting in F Open especially if the winds keep in the 20 to 30 kph range.
I know there will be at least 1 223 shooting in F TR but that is another long story
Jerry
There is little difference in accuracy potental between .308 Win and 6mBR. In fact the first possible in ISU was with .308 Win. The 6mmBR has less recoil and is easier to shoot but the .308 Win was used to accomplish one of the finest shooting feats this year with David Luckman, GB, winning the NRA Camp Perry National Long Range Championsip this year with 155 grain bullets and "iron" sights.
Last year we saw the GB Rifle Team to Canada beat our local FClass shooetrs with .308Win and iron sights, using .308 Win.
The margin of grouping capability of 6mmBR over .308 win. is small and with a .308Win you can always use it in a machinegun, unlike the 6mmBR which doesn't feed well. Regarding the latter, the 6.5X47 Lapua is now more popular in international competition, as it does feed and is just as accurate(used to win BR matches@600+) and has better ballistics.
Plus you can use .308 in FTR.
Regards,
Peter
Last year we saw the GB Rifle Team to Canada beat our local FClass shooetrs with .308Win and iron sights, using .308 Win.
The margin of grouping capability of 6mmBR over .308 win. is small and with a .308Win you can always use it in a machinegun, unlike the 6mmBR which doesn't feed well. Regarding the latter, the 6.5X47 Lapua is now more popular in international competition, as it does feed and is just as accurate(used to win BR matches@600+) and has better ballistics.
Plus you can use .308 in FTR.
Regards,
Peter
paperslayer
Regular
- Location
- Chilliwack
I think the GB rifle team could woop my ass using 30-30's and you make the excellent point that it is all about the shooter, so I don't agree with the "no replacement for displacement" theory. Before the push towards ICFRA targets there were local matches with F and TR shooting on the same targets with the same scoring and there were some damned fine TR shooters that could woop most fclass shooters. Interesting because they are limited to 156 grain bullets and they have mediocre ballistics compared to longer 30 cal bullets, but there are top f-classers that shoot 6BR that could regularly clean the clock of 6.5-284 shooters when it was all the rage and some of the other latest greates.
TR has the advantage of restricting you to one class of bullets and making the playing field pretty much equal, making it a contest of shooters. It takes more skill to shoot a 6BR at long range than a large 30 or a 7mm, but if you have that skill, you can beat anyone you like,
TR has the advantage of restricting you to one class of bullets and making the playing field pretty much equal, making it a contest of shooters. It takes more skill to shoot a 6BR at long range than a large 30 or a 7mm, but if you have that skill, you can beat anyone you like,
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I take it you haven't spent much time at 1000yds shooting against larger cal F Open rigs?
By all means shoot what makes you happy but there are plenty of top tier wind readers/shooters that ALSO shoot boomers.
When the air gets bumpy, what works becomes very obvious.
YMMV
Jerry
paperslayer
Regular
- Location
- Chilliwack
I can guarantee I have done far more 900M/1000yd competitive shooting than you have.
oh, and there are more than a few that have been embarrassed by the belief bigger is better.
I have no idea if you have shot more than Jerry but he comes across as being much more knowledgable than you. Also he said when the conditions get bumpy that bigger is usually better and I bet a very high percentage of experienced shooters would agree with him. I know it's often windy where I shoot and I would take my 7mmsaum before any 6mm br to shoot at 1000 yards on those occasions but to each there own as they say.
Also as a last note. Take a look at week 79 GUNS OF THE WEEK on 6mmbr. Here is a very experienced Champion( Don Nielson) and he brought along a couple of "big boomers" besides his 6.5x47 Lapua and 6x47 Laupa( notice no 6mm BR)incase the conditions got bumpy. So you are suggesting you know more than him as well?
We all know the 6mm br is a great cartridge but it isn't the only winning choice as has been successfully demonstrated so often.
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Just checked with Camp Perry shooter who advises:John Whidden finished 2nd by 1 point and 1 X. As far as cals. allowed there are several different classes. You can shoot a palma gun (308 only), service rifle (ar-15, M1a, etc .223,308), or match rifle (any caliber up to 338 no muzzle brakes or suppressors.
The OP asked about 300 metres, 6mmBR against .308 Win and the first has a small advantage, not as extreme as some state, but if shooting FTR class, it's .223 Rem or
.308Win.
My friends at Dolphin Guns, who build top FClass rifles are proponents of large 7mm boomers due to ballistic advantage. Off the elbows, results are negated "somewhat" due to recoil. Did a bit of homework and for 300 BR, hotter 6mms seem to be tops.
Regards,
Peter
The OP asked about 300 metres, 6mmBR against .308 Win and the first has a small advantage, not as extreme as some state, but if shooting FTR class, it's .223 Rem or
.308Win.
My friends at Dolphin Guns, who build top FClass rifles are proponents of large 7mm boomers due to ballistic advantage. Off the elbows, results are negated "somewhat" due to recoil. Did a bit of homework and for 300 BR, hotter 6mms seem to be tops.
Regards,
Peter
As far as accuracy over say a whole weekend for me . I would go with the 6 because you are sucking up less recoil over a long term .
One day match both are more accurate than probably most shooters .
As for the out to 1000 in variable conditions . I would go with the 308 . I witnessed the guys in F/TR with the heavies at the top of the board consistently .
One day match both are more accurate than probably most shooters .
As for the out to 1000 in variable conditions . I would go with the 308 . I witnessed the guys in F/TR with the heavies at the top of the board consistently .
