6mm build

Since each match is an individual event, you need to inquire with the match director of the event to find out if there are any requirements or restrictions on equipment. You can look at videos of their past events and ask people who have shot the match in previous years what it was like. Each match director has a style, things they favor.

Think of it like a martial arts tournament. Be it karate, judo, jiu-jitsu... you don't get a guide that tells you what moves your opponent is going to throw at you, and in what order. You train in the art, in the vast moves and techniques it is made up of. In the tournament you apply what you know and adapt. The the person who has trained the best and can adapt the best is the victor. Truly talented people even invent new techniques as Bruce Lee did. It's the same idea. The people who are the best trained and can best adapt to new things end up at the top in these matches.

Match stages usually have a story, something that inspires the stage and the problem it is trying to solve. It's similar to how IDPA match directors come up with their stages. For instance, in the Sin City Precision video you are referring to, at 2:35 the guy is shooting over a wall, off a ladder. I have a barricade that simulates the same situation. It's based on a pic from Iraq. A sniper or DM on a ladder shooting over a wall. If you look through pics of various matches, and pics from Iraq, etc... you will get idea of things they may throw at you.

Two 10 rounders and a 5 rounder should get you through any stage. Carry more mags if you don't want to bomb up between stages.

In Canada, I think 6mm SLR is probably the best option. I got the 6mm Creedmoor dies on a trade.
 
coyote said:
Shooter I was running my 6slr well over 3200 with H1000 have you considered using magnum primers with this powder, I couldn't get the speed up until I did unless it was very hot outside.
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I have tried hotter loads using standard primers but found my bolt started sticking and brass life was short. I'm guessing that a primer change to magnums probably won't change that?
 
Gawd, how I hate threads like this...
There I am...minding my own business...perfectly happy with the equipment that I already have...and then I read this and I feel the 'itch' start.
Actions, barrels, triggers, chassis sitting on the shelf, looking for a caliber and dedicated task.
Swearing that I don't 'need' another rifle in...yet another 'perfect' caliber...but it's too late.
I'm already looking at reamers and suppliers for brass/projectiles...Hmmm....will it be 6XC...no....6SLR!
When will this madness end!?!?:rolleyes:
 
k, great explanation. Problem is our static ranges greatly limit practise.

Ladders to the roof... you gotta be kidding :)

Move around with a rifle and shoot? pack your stuff and go home

Movers? random targets....Really???

About the only thing I can see at local ranges is multi position shooting to static targets at fixed distances.

For this sport to have any chance of developing, we need proper ranges.

Jerry
 
Artillery/tank ranges on military ranges should work. We just need to get access.

One misconception is that its "run n' gun". It isn't. The gun is cleared before any major movement, and often has to be moved by range staff. When changing positions on a barricade, the bolt needs to be pulled back. Some places will require that the bolt be pulled back when making any scope adjustments when shooting barricades or any unstable position. Shooters can get DQ'd if they don't follow this. So, make it part of your practice routine so that it becomes muscle memory. Bolt to the rear, change position...
 
I have a 6xc and it shoots quite well! Took a fair bit of pissing around to figure out a load for it but once I did its very accurate. Shot an 8 rd 4 inch group at 900m with it a couple weeks ago. The down side to it is getting the brass if you aren't into making your own. So I did a little research and decided to build a new rifle in 6 competition match. Along the same lines as the slr. Best thing about it is the reamer is made for Winchester .243 brass. All you do is load up the .243 brass and fire it to fireform in the 6CM. So it will solve the brass issue for me. Winchester is plentiful. And the fact that it will drive the 105 class bullet to 3300fps while still getting excellent barrel life(with H1000 or N160) makes it an all around winner.
 
Schecter 81 said:
My vote would have been for the 6XC. Split the difference. Better velocity than the br. Better barrel life than the AI. But I can understand not wanting to get into another caliber.
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This^^
6XC is an excellent choice. 243 velocities, longer barrel life, little more ooomph the the 6BR
 
That's what my 6mm Crudaser does with 105s. It also needs to be blown out, but the brass is cheap and plentiful and can still be easily found.

That reminds me, there is one universal equipment rule I forgot to mention Mystic; velocity is limited to 3100-3150 fps to avoid pitting the steel targets. But, you won't need to worry about that with the XC.
 
kombayotch said:
Artillery/tank ranges on military ranges should work. We just need to get access.

One misconception is that its "run n' gun". It isn't. The gun is cleared before any major movement, and often has to be moved by range staff. When changing positions on a barricade, the bolt needs to be pulled back. Some places will require that the bolt be pulled back when making any scope adjustments when shooting barricades or any unstable position. Shooters can get DQ'd if they don't follow this. So, make it part of your practice routine so that it becomes muscle memory. Bolt to the rear, change position...
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That is very good to know... See there are "rules" for this game. Just can't find them anywhere.

So any type of regular practise is going to be problematic but we can get creative.

Glad you guys brought up the speed thing as I knew there was another reason the smaller XC case made sense. I jumped past all the 243 based cases cause they produced velocities I just couldn't use and I was concerned that bullets may not shoot well at those speeds.

Waiting on dies and then can go make some noise. May never get to a match but it is a new area for tech and testing - not to mention a whole new way to shoot a rifle. Got a new stock design swirling in the brain.

Fun, fun, fun

Jerry
 
The 6xc is a fun caliber. Quite often when I'm behind the gun enough I can catch my own swirl. Splash is not even a challenge. 39gr of H4350 gives me about 3050fps. 28" bartlein. No recoil to manage at all. You can shoot it all day.
 
Mystic Precision said:
That is very good to know... See there are "rules" for this game. Just can't find them anywhere.

So any type of regular practise is going to be problematic but we can get creative.

Glad you guys brought up the speed thing as I knew there was another reason the smaller XC case made sense. I jumped past all the 243 based cases cause they produced velocities I just couldn't use and I was concerned that bullets may not shoot well at those speeds.

Waiting on dies and then can go make some noise. May never get to a match but it is a new area for tech and testing - not to mention a whole new way to shoot a rifle. Got a new stock design swirling in the brain.

Fun, fun, fun

Jerry
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The only global PRS rules are on their FAQ page:
http://www.precisionrifleseries.com/faq.html

Do you have an exporter on the US side? Could you bring in some of the 6mm Creedmore brass from GA Precision. If so, we would have an uninterrupted supply of it...

Some of the guys down south have also been converting the Creedmoor brass into XC brass. Apparently it works with the Redding dies (because they're supposedly tight) and chambers that are on the larger side. Maybe some of the XC owners can try it and report back.
 
No joy on the 6 Creedmoor from GA... costs of brokers and extra hands would boost the price way beyond what the market would ever pay.

Considering, I can offer 6.5 creedmoor and a simple neck size and you are golden - Hrn and Norma - why bother? You have to prep the necks regardless

For the 6XC, Norma if you dont want to form. If willing to start with 22-250, all the usual suspects including PRVI which is my new personal fave.

Personally, I would not use Creedmoor brass to make another chambering. It is already pricey without fussing, and I can start with another case that is 1/2 the price and easier to form.

AND proper Creedmoor brass will have a "fat" base in a proper 6XC chamber.. so I am not seeing the utility here. Maybe some are using non spec 6XC reamers with the 473 base? Then that would make very expensive sense... Ummm, not really as you would just stay with the Creedmoor.


Thanks for the link to the rules.... saw it and it is completely vague on what the rifle specs are. I then assume there are no rifle restrictions - sounds like a sport where the evolution of success will drive the design of the better mousetraps.

But basic things like min trigger weight? assume none?

Add ons to the rifle for support and such? Completely open except for match restrictions and that can vary.... "see match for details" come to mind.

If I were to jump into this sport hard.. I see huge opening for improving the tech in the rifle stock. But without knowing what is or isn't allowed, it can be a real fubar showing up at a match. If things get serious, I will just contact Mr Emmons for his opinion.

For now, just wait for dies and start making some noise. Then work on positional shooting, mag changing, shooting after a run and other basic things. Regardless, all of these new skills will help build my overall Rifle craft

and that is already worth the journey.... fun, fun, fun...Got this savage rimfire too... ummm

Jerry
 
Apparently the base on the 6XC got bigger (308 size) once Norma started making brass for it. That is what I have been told by a contact down south using the XC, and Robert Whitley's page seems to agree:
http://www.6mmar.com/6XC_II.php

I would not go with a trigger weight below 2 lbs. Too easy to touch off rounds when you don't intend to when doing things like tracking a mover off a barricade if you set the trigger too light. I don't know of any specific rules, but it's similar to any other shooting sport in the sense that if the RO sees you touching off rounds at inadvertent times and it's apparent that you didn't intend to, he will pull you out of the match or stop you from shooting till you correct it.

As you can imagine, this is one of the reasons why they have you pull the bolt to the rear when changing positions...
 
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I am sure there will be variations but the 6XC is supposed to use the 22-250 base. If you look at the picture at the bottom where they measure the base diameter for the Norma brass, the caliper shows 0.4685".

Which is a PERFECT fit to a 0.469" chamber which IS the SAAMI 22-250 base diameter. In the link below, the SAAMI drawing lists the chamber as 0.4681" + up to 2 thou... 0.469" seems to be the reamer average. For comparison, 243/308 SAAMI chamber is 0.4714" + 0.002" so 0.472 and 0.473 seems to be the norm.

http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Rifle/22-250 Remington.pdf

I am not sure why they would list this as inadequate clearance. The whole point is to have an interference fit between the case head and the chamber at lock up. This is EXACTLY the type of fit I want in my FTR rifles.

Note, it is the case head and body fit/alignment with the chamber and bore that aligns the bullet with the rifling. Why would you want excessive play here?

As I have never shot this rd, I cannot say what the issues are but I have to believe, excessive load pressure is part of the problem. Making a chamber larger only kicks the problem down the road a bit. A case will swell to fit the chamber if pressures are high enough. So if there is a 3 thou gap at the start, a few firings later, guess what, you have an interference fit AND loose primer pockets. maybe the brass is already tossed into the grass by then so it just doesn't matter????

I'll know more when I start shooting for myself but given some of the reported velocities, high pressures is the norm

Seems PRS is set up to let shooters "figure" it out and as long as things are safe, the gear will evolve.

Jerry
 
It would be a mistake to use benchrest/F-Class clearances in that sport, especially if shooting in a really dusty area in the south. 0.4685 in a 0.469 chamber is ASKING for jamming. Tight tolerances and sensitive triggers cause people a lot of problems. Here is a reliability highlight someone did years ago:

[youtube]zu9JEoHMBPA[/youtube]

And that is at just one match!

The whole idea behind their matches is for gear and shooting techniques to evolve and make the practical/tactical shooter more effective.
 
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Why my PRS rig is built on a SAVAGE receiver...AND accutrigger.

so unless someone kicks crap into my rifle, I am feeling good that it should survive.

For S&G's, bumped back the shoulder on a few 22-250 cases. Chambered like a dream. Now to fireform and see what happens.

When the snow melts, I am going to have fun hiking into the hills... Damn, when am I going to practise FTR????

Jerry
 
PRVI measures 0.467" at the base. Fireformed some using cornmeal and light Titegroup load. No lost cases - some old and some new. Look good.

Clean them up, do basic prep and wait for seating dies.

Lots of room in the mag for the 105's so OAL is not a problem. Seem to stack and feed nicely - manually pushing brass out of mag. No surprises here.... but then none expected.

For this reamer, the PRVI brass is a good match. Forming is straightforward.

So far, so good.

Jerry
 
I have an old 1-13 twist barrel a benchrest guy gave me that I use for fire forming for my 6mm Crusader. I use cheap lightweight varmint bullets and practice close range things like positional shooting and barricades. Fast to load (do it on the Dillon), get fully formed cases, and get in a bit of practice while forming. But you need the seating die for that...
 
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