6mm's marginal for deer? Not with a .240Wby!

Mad_Mikee said:
..and dont forget costing 4x the price to shoot.

Almost brings tears to your eyes when in the heat of the moment you eject a spent weatherby casing and loose it in the long grass. Forget that big buck you just shot. Better start digging around for the $2 piece of brass you just dropped.
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LMFAO! Quite true. :D
 
H4831 said:
Yes, I am well aware of such things. The 100 grain pointed Speer bullets I was using would would travel through the atmosphere with teh best of them.

People have argued over paper ballistics of rifle cartridges for as long as I can remember. And I can remember for a rather long time! The difference between paper ballistics and the performance of the cartridge on game, is often so different to what one expects, that it is sometimes comical.
Case in point. Years ago I took a young son mountain hunting and he shot a mountain goat. He used his 243 Krico, with factory loaded IVI Imperial, with a 100 grain soft point bullet.
For those not familiar with goats, they are considered hard to kill. Much harder than a deer. If you look at charts recommending cartridges for various game, the calibre often stated for mountain goats is the 300 W mag.
This goat was standing broadside at 1oo yards. Son took a good rest, shot and the goat rolled down the mountain, never to move again. When we skinned it out, the bullet was under the skin on the far side, in text book mushroom pattern. The biologist who checked the horns said the billy was above average size.
Later at home, I decided to chronograph the factory cartridges he used. Five of the Imperial IVI averaged 2540 fps over the Oehler!!!!!
Without changing a thing, I checked five of my hadloads with 100 grain Sierra bullets. They averaged 3094 fps.
I am now looking at my note book on it. Everything is correct and the way it happened, including just reaching for a new batch of ammo to test, exactly the same way, without even moving from the shooting bench.
So, if I had known this, would I have let the young son take a rifle goat hunting that just fired a 100 grain bullet at 2540 fps, 12 feet from the muzzle?
Absolutely no way! But, we didn't know this, so he just shot the goat and it quickly died!
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Very interesting post, and I have had a very similar experience. Many years ago, Hodgdons marketed a powder designated H205. It was in a burning rate between IMR 4350/4831. In the Hodgdon's manual it showed a given charge of H205 & the 154 grain Hornady as making right around 2725 fps with the max load. I loaded up a bunch [using careful load development], and shot the maximum listed load at 100 & 200 yards, and they shot very well indeed! I took my 7x57 hunting. [a M77 tang safety Ruger] Shot a nice Black bear and a decent muley, with passthroughs on both. I was plenty pleased with this load. Then I got a chance at a young Bull Moose at about 75 yards, so poked him with one of those Hornadys. He ran about 30 yards and obligingly fell down dead. In dressing him, I found that the bullet was under the opposite hide, so cut it out for a look. Whoa! This bullet had some expansion, but not near the amount I would have expected. AAMOF, It only was about .33" in diameter and most of the shank was still straight and intact. Reasoning that the load was slower than listed, I visited a friend who owned a chronograph to see what the real speed was. The average speed over the 'graph at 15 feet was 2265 fps!! Needless to say, I was somewhat taken aback. However, none of the animals shot up to that point seemed to mind the slower velocity, they died just the same. Spoiled it for me, though. I found out that my Ruger had a pretty generous chamber, and a .286 groove diameter, so embarked on more load development. Got the velocity up where it was supposed to be [still good accuracy] with several grains more powder and no pressure issues. Regards, Eagleye.
 
H4831 said:
Yes, I am well aware of such things. The 100 grain pointed Speer bullets I was using would would travel through the atmosphere with teh best of them.

People have argued over paper ballistics of rifle cartridges for as long as I can remember. And I can remember for a rather long time! The difference between paper ballistics and the performance of the cartridge on game, is often so different to what one expects, that it is sometimes comical.
Case in point. Years ago I took a young son mountain hunting and he shot a mountain goat. He used his 243 Krico, with factory loaded IVI Imperial, with a 100 grain soft point bullet.
For those not familiar with goats, they are considered hard to kill. Much harder than a deer. If you look at charts recommending cartridges for various game, the calibre often stated for mountain goats is the 300 W mag.
This goat was standing broadside at 1oo yards. Son took a good rest, shot and the goat rolled down the mountain, never to move again. When we skinned it out, the bullet was under the skin on the far side, in text book mushroom pattern. The biologist who checked the horns said the billy was above average size.
Later at home, I decided to chronograph the factory cartridges he used. Five of the Imperial IVI averaged 2540 fps over the Oehler!!!!!
Without changing a thing, I checked five of my hadloads with 100 grain Sierra bullets. They averaged 3094 fps.
I am now looking at my note book on it. Everything is correct and the way it happened, including just reaching for a new batch of ammo to test, exactly the same way, without even moving from the shooting bench.
So, if I had known this, would I have let the young son take a rifle goat hunting that just fired a 100 grain bullet at 2540 fps, 12 feet from the muzzle?
Absolutely no way! But, we didn't know this, so he just shot the goat and it quickly died!
Click to expand...

My father and I actually started reloading after chronographing some IVI 150gr 7mm RM ammo - 2700 fps - out of a 26" barrel. Interestingly he had shot moose, a mountain goat and bears with that ammo and they all died without a hubub.

Also of note is that in pretty much all of the articles written by PH in Africa agree that an impact velocity of between 2000-2400 fps is ideal.
 
I shoot 105 grain A max Hornady in my 700 .243. I don't know how fast they are but I dropped a whitetail doe at 262 yards this fall with one shot. Dead right there. I also load Hornady 100 grain round noses in my 7600 .243 but I have yet to shoot anything with that load. The manual says they should be about 2900 fps. But with out a chrono who knows for sure. The 6mm is definately a deer gun.
regards, Darryl
 
Great replies fellows, thanks.
Goes to show that many of us who have been around a while have similar stories to tell.
 
Sounds like you had a great hunt and your rifle/cartridge combo did it's job but I am also surprised that you are happy with only 3300fps with a 95gr bullet.

You should be able to depending on barrel length of course very easily be able to reach 3400fps - 3500fps with that bullet doesn't sound like you need too though... :D
 
Sounds like you had a great hunt and your rifle/cartridge combo did it's job but I am also surprised that you are happy with only 3300fps with a 95gr bullet.

You should be able to depending on barrel length of course very easily be able to reach 3400fps - 3500fps with that bullet doesn't sound like you need too though... (Camp Cook)

marcoman said:
Agreed, I'm sure the deer didn't notice either;) The rifle/cartridge combo can push 90-100gr. pills 3400fps comfortably and has had 85gr. TSX's leave at 3600. None of these loads showed excessive pressure.... nor excessive accuracy.
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I have had previous loads reach the velocities one would expect from this chambering. Over the winter I will start fresh and see if I can get 85gr. TSX's to group at 3600fps.
 
One thing is for sure 6mm is not maginal on deer, I even heard a guy on a hunting show say it was the other day, sheesh! We've shot a lot of deer with 243 and they never go anywhere except home. And most of them with cheap Federal blue box ammo! Even used Federal blue box on several moose with 270, 308, and 30-06 and they all went nowhere too!
 
marcoman said:
Question: Will 1-10" reliably stabilize bullets over 100gr? Does Increasing velocity increase rpm, therefore increasing stability?
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Not in my experience. There was 1 in 10 in the Ruger I had. It would make good groups with the 100 grain pointed bullets, but not the 105 grain.
It wasn't the most accurate rifle I ever had and I sometimes wondered if 100 grain was marginal, but lighter bullets were no better. The 105s opened up to three and four inches at 100 yards.
 
When Dads shoulders started bothering him using his '06 feather weight Husqvarna, I gave him my 243 Winchester model 88. Using the Speer 105gr, the group size did 'open up' somewhat. The bullet that gave me the best accuracy was the Sierra 85gr and IMR 4064. Before he gave up hunting, he accounted for a number of Deer with that load in the Penticton area.
 
Mad_Mikee said:
..and dont forget costing 4x the price to shoot.

Almost brings tears to your eyes when in the heat of the moment you eject a spent weatherby casing and loose it in the long grass. Forget that big buck you just shot. Better start digging around for the $2 piece of brass you just dropped.
Click to expand...

I've lost 2 pieces of Weatherby 7mm brass in 2 1/2 yrs. of shooting it. It stung a little, but the remaining brass has been reloaded 5 times so far. Losing 2 is not that big of a deal.
 
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