7-08 vs 30-06

What will penetrate deeper/leave better wound in dry newspaper?

  • 140gr TSX

    Votes: 90 60.8%

  • 200gr Sierra

    Votes: 42 28.4%

  • Both the same

    Votes: 16 10.8%
  • Total voters
    148
SuperCub said:
I think the premium bullet will prevail, esp over the Sierra which doesn't have a good reputation for being "tough".



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Possibly...

But often., people will say that they prefer a heavy (cup and core) bullet) to a smaller *premium* bullet....that the premium is not necessary.

A big heavy bulet has always penetrated/worked welll for me...But so has lighter premiums....

We will see what works the best (in is test):)
 
Republic of Alberta said:
The TSX may not open up in dry newspaper.

The 200g Sierra will leave a wider "wound" in the paper. The TSX (if it opens up) will leaver a longer wound.

If you were able to measure the volume of the wound channels the 200g Sierra would be larger.
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This is true.... I shot 2 TSX's into waxed cardboard boxes from a tree nursery, and neither opened up (hole got plugged?).... then less than 1 hr later I hammered a nice blacke frontal..... believe me they opened up on him. He was blowing steam from the brisket and various fluids fast from the exit hole.

Possibly a little wet paper at the start may help (or to really test bullet integrity... shoot through 1 water jug infront of the dry paper).... but my conclusion was the waxed cardboard was the culprit.... as I've never had an issue with the few I shot into wood and critters (they opened up 100% of the time)!

Seems to me there have been some law enforcement HP's that had the same issue with clothing...

280_ACKLEY
 
While the 140 may hold together well and penetrate deep the 200 will strike a harder blow and transfer more energy. I'm no fan of Sierra bullets but on a large aminal I'd rather have the 200/06 load. Once the Sierra opens up it'll make a large channel. Not anything against the TSX, they shoot great in all the guns I've tried them in and I plan on takeing my first animals with them this year.
 
Shooting completed...results are in...

No pics unti I get to work so I can upoad them...Uness I get reay bored later today:)

I shot only 3 examples of each, so this isn't scientific at alll, but I relaly don't think that you woud get widely varying numbers if I had shot another 97 of each:)

Penetration:

140gr TSX

12.5"
13"
13.25"

200gr Sierra

10"
10"
12"

"Wound" channel

Honestly, about the same. I wil post pics, but I dont' think that you could make a determination between the 2 for "bigger" until you get to the end of it, where the TSX outpenetrated.

The both opened up almost immediately,and were both at full expansion pretty quick- certainly by 2"

Both left what I would consider "good" wound channels. The TSX was a bit more uniform throughout, that is it.


Weight Retention

The 140gr TSX stayed at 139 gr- all of them. They colected a bit of paper n the test, but they basiclaly al look like a TSX in a Barnes ad.

The 200gr CUp and core bullet ended up seperaign it's core from jacket and all that was recovered was the copper jacket with some lead smooshed on it, and I found the base of the lead,too. Retained weight about 78-80gr.

Basically, it looks like they both expanded at impact, both achieved maximum diameter within 2", and both continued to penetrate.

The 200gr started shedding it's weight pretty much rigth away, the TSX didn't. Eventually, the 200gr ran out of weigth to provide momentum and stopped, and a few inches later the TSX ran out of velocity and stopped.

Energy at target:

140gr About 2100 ft/lbs

200gr About 2500 ft/lbs.


Recoil

That damn Stevens with it's damn hockey puck recoil pad sure hurt iek hel when shooting the 200gr bullets. Like, it hurt ALOT!!!:runaway: I may need a massage later;)

The "7-08" load int he 7RM barey nudged me. It was very pleasant to shoot.
 
That was great!



Some time we will have to try a bullet test with that "Bullet Test Tube" I hear that you can pour water in to see how big the total wound is.

It is my guess that a better way of mesuring "killing power" (if you could even begin to find a way) would be to measure #1 penetration and #2 wound volume. This would give a better illistration of bullet preformance. Right now everyone seems to be focused on how deep a bullet penetrates, and as a result the super penetrators are very popular right now. I think that with new test meida, in time, we will draw away from the super penetrators, look at wound volume and judge it along side penetration.
 
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hey gatehouse you should continue to do experimants like this.

"Tommorrow on CGN Mythbusters, buster gets filled with ballistic gel and is shot with the 7mm mag and 300 mag and .303 to see which penetrates better"

I like it. We need the pictures!
 
Awsome post Gatehouse, I'm realy surpised that the 200gr came apart even at such low speed. All the more reason to use good bullets in high speed rounds.
 
Lots of times when a bullet spits it's core out it occurs near the very end of the wound as it slows down. The edges of the copper catch and stop it, the heavy lead pops out and makes it another inch. The constant forward motion normaly keeps the lead in the cup, it is only when the bullet stops the lead comes out. There is absolutly nothing wrong with this so long as the bullet is prety much stopped at the end of it's progress when it happens.

Lots of times when a bullet is impacting at a very slow velocity it will also spit it's core, the lack of hard resistance from the media to keep the lead in the cup as everyting peels back causes the core to pop out early in the wound. What you find is a copper jacket only opened slightly with no lead in it. Of course at this low of a velocity the soft lead fairs better and can actualy penetrate a little without blowing to bits.
 
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Thanks Mr.Gatehouse very informative.I thought the 7 would have a slight edge.I wonder what if any effect that 400 Ft/Lbs of energy really has in the feild?
 
Well, I thought I shoudl also try out some other combos to see if the 7-08 was as good as the 30-06 when using premium bullets.

So, I used a 180gr AB and 180gr Partiton.

Any predictions on these 2???

Will they outpentrate the TSX?
 
I only fired 2 of each of the 180gr AccuBond and the 180gr Nosler Partition. Basiclaly, I am running out of newspaper that doesn't have holes in it.

SO take this for what it is worth, 2 examples of each bullet, only...


Penetration:

AB

13"
13"

NP

13"
15"

"WOund" Channel

They both opened rapidly, fully expanded by 2"

Both of these bullets made sligthy greater diameter wounds than the 200gr or the TSX, at least at the beginning.

Around 11" they seemed to lose a little steam, and the wound started to shrink, especially fo rthe NP.

The last coupel of inches for the NP hat went 15" was relaly just ttearing the paper, it wasn't making much of a channel.

Teh wounds were not remarkably different form the TSX wound channel.

Weight Retention:

I only recovered 1 Accubond. I was able to get measurements from where the hole stoped, and they both pretty much stopped in the same place. No idea where the bullet ended up...

AB:
135gr. Looks like a Nosler Ad.

NP
118.5
117.5

Both look like crap, with the front core gone almost entirely, in classic Partition style. Looks don't kill animals, though. Teh Partion did what I expected it to do.

Energy at target:

Both about 2500 ft lbs

Recoil:

Bloody Stevens!! I am very happy I never unt with this gun, and most of the tiem it livesin my truck as a general purpose beater!:)

Conclusion:

I dont' think we are too far off the mark if we say that thr 7-08 using 140 gr TSX will work for anything you woud shoot with a 180gr AB, NP bullet,without much difference in performance.

They all left the same sort of wound channel, they all penetrated about the same.

The only thing I woud say is that I would far prefer a 140gr TSX to a 200gr Cup and core bullet. The 200gr made the smae size hole as the TSX, but penetrated the least.

I will get some more paper and check the TSX at 7RM velocities. If my prediciton is correct, I think it wil outpenetrate everything...
 
I am going to try 140 TSXs loaded up in my 270 Weatherby this year on the deer.... Should work just fine.... I also have some 140 Accubonds to try, they both shoot very accurately...
 
7mm08

The 7mm08 is my favorite rifle cartridge and ive had lots of others to play with over the years. I have and think i always will have a 7mm08. I call it the magic 7. LOL
I would be shocked to see it outperform that heavyweight but it might simply because "its magic" LOL.
 
Gatehouse said:
...the 200gr bullets. Like, it hurt ALOT!!!:runaway: I may need a massage later;)

The "7-08" load int he 7RM barey nudged me. It was very pleasant to shoot.
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This pretty much sums up my "Current" thoughts about Hunting Rifles.........

Why beat yourself up shooting the Big Heavies when you get virtually identical performance from "Modern" bullets in Cartridges that deliver half the recoil ? Sure in Africa there's a Place for the Big Mommas but for my Hunting Realm there really not needed.
I've sold off all My Big Magnums......:redface:
Long live the 260 rem:dancingbanana:
 
Great test Gatehouse....love the 7-08 Rem and the 140gr TSX... your 7 Mag will impress you! 140gr TSX @ 3167fps from my 280AI are damn impressive... and you'll outrun that a bit I would imagine.

280_ACKLEY
 
Gibbs505 said:
Depends what you want, not what is 'needed'.
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Exactly.....and I can appreciate the Folks that like the Big Gunz:cool:
I've had enough hot-rodded 45-70's,300 mags.338 mags etc. Got tired of that and made a 458 win Mag for chasing Bears...sure it was Fun but.........Necessary ?
Not for me at the moment, but if I ever draw a Coastal Grizz tag I may pick up another;)
Right now I like a Rifle that Bites more at the Business end...
Nothing wrong with "Want" instead of "Need" however :)

Thanks for the efforts Gatehouse......Perhaps the "Heavy" cup and core Bullet Fans will do some Tests of thier own....instead of just relying on the "Because it's always worked before" arguments;)
 
BCWILL said:
Exactly.....and I can appreciate the Folks that like the Big Gunz:cool:
I've had enough hot-rodded 45-70's,300 mags.338 mags etc. Got tired of that and made a 458 win Mag for chasing Bears...sure it was Fun but.........Necessary ?
Not for me at the moment, but if I ever draw a Coastal Grizz tag I may pick up another;)
Right now I like a Rifle that Bites more at the Business end...
Nothing wrong with "Want" instead of "Need" however :)

Thanks for the efforts Gatehouse......Perhaps the "Heavy" cup and core Bullet Fans will do some Tests of thier own....instead of just relying on the "Because it's always worked before" arguments;)
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What I find interesting is that the premiums liek the TSX make it possibe to us lighter bullets with less recoil and higher velocity, yet still have the same (or better) performance as a traditional bullet that is much heavier.

(In this case the butt pad of the Stevens made it much less pleasant as well, but I am sure that a recoil calculator woudl let us know pretty damn quick that the 7-08 with 140gr bullets recoils less than a 30-06 with 200 or 180gr bullets)
 
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