7.62 X 25 - Bullet seating ####-eyed.

[fire@will]

Any of yous' guys got any idea WTF is going on here ? I've been playing around with this F'n thing for the last couple of hours and the seater insists on canting the bullet. I've tried a different seating die - same thing. I loaded about 100 of these, using 110 gn bullets, in used/re-sized cases and they were fine. These bullet are shorter 86 gn and the case are brand new Starline. The case mouth on the new brass is tighter than the older stuff - I actually had to be careful that the bullet didn't fall into the case on some of the older ones. The 86 gn bullets, only go into the neck .130" - so, not very much. I'm out of ideas. Thanks for any wisdom you can lay on me.

 

[Janeau]

Wrong seating stem ? Wrong seating die ?
Lead bullet nose seem deformed on the nose of the bullet.
Neck of case look funny. Are you sure the resizing ball - expander is the right diameter ?

If those check out - have you tried to unscrew the die lock ring and let the die align itself while seating ?

 

[fire@will]

The dies are brand new (Lee) and the set-up worked fine for the first 100 - that were 110 gn bullets and older cases. Went for a poop, when I started using the 86 gn bullets and new cases. I've already cobbled together, a different (RCBS) seating die - didn't seem to make any difference. I think, perhaps, the bullet is just so short, it doesn't have enough meat on it, to align itself in the case. Ya' - I'm reachin'.

 

[serg777]

I just have reloaded a batch with Lee dies, Starline and 85gr Campro - I only have seen it once, but not such a big angle like yours . It was my fault as I did not much expand the mouth and then while traveling in the press the bullet has turned to the angled position right before meeting the die. I only could see the issue when rotating the loaded cartridge. But then I put it again under the press back and forth while turning the cartridge by 90 degrees and it fixed the problem.

 

[Ganderite]

I have loaded those bullets with Lee dies. No problem. No idea what is wrong.

 

[bigedp51]

Below is a Lyman type "M" expander with three expander steps. With jacketed bullets I only bump the case mouth onto step "B" that expands the case a few thousandths larger than bullet diameter. This allows the bullet to start straight into the case without tilting. And the type "M" expander does not over expand the case mouth and cause case mouth splits. Step "C" is used for cast bullets with a larger diameter.

Below the center, case has been expanded with the type "M" expander and the bullet has sarted straight into the case without any tilting. The case on the left has a standard belled flared case mouth and the bullet is tilted.

Below the Lyman type "M" expander patent has expired and now Redding dies have the same type expander.

NOTE, if the seater plug fits the bullet shape it should hold the bullet without tilting. You can also start the bullets into the cases straight with just your fingers with a type "M" expander.

Below a Lyman type "M" .223 expander, many reloaders with progressive presses use this expander. This ensures straight inline seating and reduces bullet runout. After expanding and brass spring back the case mouth is .001 to .002 larger than bullet diameter. And a slight taper crimp will close up the case mouth for proper feeding.

 

[mbogo3]

I'm using CH .30 mauser dies . Never had that happen ,looks like no crimp.

 

[wasa]

I reload 7.62x25 with Lee dies and have used 85 gr Campro and 110gr Berry's projectiles. I find that using once fired brass, whether from my Tokarev or range pickup (S&B) doesn't have this issue, but brand new Starline brass has this issue. A Google search found info on some other forum that since the Lee dies only resize the outside of the case (i.e. the primer punch does not resize the inside of the case like on my rifle dies) coupled with the fact that (supposedly) the new Starline brass case mouth is undersized, even flaring the mouth doesn't permit the projectile to go in straight all (most) of the time.

I took apart the Lee seating die and wrapped electrical tape around the "plunger" to try and center it better. I also seated the projectiles "deep" (to the minimum overall length) and did a plunk test with the barrel of my pistol to make sure they would chamber. I was able to successfully load 100 rounds this way (ie new brass) with what I call minor tilt. Again, I have had no issues with once-fired brass with these Lee dies.

Oh, don't know if it is my Lee dies or my Tokarev pistol has a tight chamber, but after resizing the brass I put the case into a 9mm die to "shrink" the base of the brass. Before this I was having FTF issues with the loaded round not passing the "plunk" test. Took me a lot of searching to solve that problem!!!!

Hope this helps

 

[fire@will]

Thank you very much, gentlemen.
The Lee expander die, only flares the mouth of the case, it doesn't re-size the entire neck like the Lyman's that are referenced - too bad.
The bullets are Hornady, so I don't think their quality is in question. My limited experience with this round, mirrors what "wasa" is saying. The used cases were no problem, with the 110 gn bullets and I finished the cases off with some of the 86 gn bullets - and everything seemed fine. The problem surfaced, when I started using the new Starline cases, with these tiny bullets - so it looks like the case mouth is just too tight and the pusillanimous distance the bullet is travelling in the neck of the case, is not sufficient to straighten it out. Bit of a PIA - it adds about 15-20 seconds to each round. I have to take the cartridge out of the press and straighten the bullet in the case - and then put it back in the press, to get crimped.
Someone mentioned the crimp - in the supplied photo, the cartridge was not yet crimped
Thanks again, Guys - I appreciate your help. - and "bigedp51" - thanks for the detailed "education". Even if I can't figure a solution for this - at least I came away, a little smarter.