7.62 x 25
- Thread starter Spencer
- Start date
I'm willing to bet it is. Clearly a CZ-52. The article then proceeds to state: "This ammunition will destroy weaker designs such as the TT-33...." Weaker my ass.
This shows how easy it is for careless people to misinform. Once something like that takes hold, many people will cling to the myth regardless of proof to the contrary, which is why it is so important to refute it with vigour.
This shows how easy it is for careless people to misinform. Once something like that takes hold, many people will cling to the myth regardless of proof to the contrary, which is why it is so important to refute it with vigour.
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A while ago I posted a question about the Tokarev 213s lasting about 2000 rounds. I didn't get alot of response.
Some people in the US were saying that the metal was starting to split after 2000-3000 and I have a feeling that those who bought this Bulgarian ammo in bulk were paying for it by wearing down the material in time.
Hmmmmmm......
Some people in the US were saying that the metal was starting to split after 2000-3000 and I have a feeling that those who bought this Bulgarian ammo in bulk were paying for it by wearing down the material in time.
Hmmmmmm......
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I don't care what this means to anyone....
When I was doing research on Norc M93 I found a personal gun collection site that listed few dozen guns inc. Norinco M93 and Tokarev. The guy had a short write up on each gun and he mentioed what I posted above. I don't see why someone would make up stuff and badmouth his own guns... Is it true? I don't know....maybe maybe not. As I said it's just something I've read...
When I was doing research on Norc M93 I found a personal gun collection site that listed few dozen guns inc. Norinco M93 and Tokarev. The guy had a short write up on each gun and he mentioed what I posted above. I don't see why someone would make up stuff and badmouth his own guns... Is it true? I don't know....maybe maybe not. As I said it's just something I've read...
This is just an observation, so don't take it the wrong way. Lots of very bad things happen to Chinese and East Bloc firearms in the US. These things are communicated freely and very quickly up and down the internet. Very few bad things happen to US made firearms. The bad things that do happen are communicated very slowly. I can't see, from a design stand point why a Tok would be any weaker than any other Colt-Browning system gun, in fact all of the changes made seem to have been to either make production cheaper (lathe cut full circumference lugs) make the gun simpler to fix and clean (sear hammer package) or make it easier to shoot (lack of safety)
Gunnutz are some of the most gullible folks I've ever enountered. If they see it on the internet, they believe it without question, and then do their part to add to the myth and pass it along.
I'm calling you on this. Let's see a list. You said "Lots of very bad things". To make it easy, just show 10. If you find it difficult to choose 10 from the very long list, how about five? Since you can't do that, I'd be happy with two.
Here's the catch - it can't just be mindless repeating of hearsay. It must be specific, documented second-hand accounts. Since it's the Norinco Tokarev we've been discussing, how about even one about it?
I'm calling you on this. Let's see a list. You said "Lots of very bad things". To make it easy, just show 10. If you find it difficult to choose 10 from the very long list, how about five? Since you can't do that, I'd be happy with two.
Here's the catch - it can't just be mindless repeating of hearsay. It must be specific, documented second-hand accounts. Since it's the Norinco Tokarev we've been discussing, how about even one about it?
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I think that Ian's post is in reference to the "fact" that US firearms are vastly superior to anything and everything else. I'm sure that his post is intentional sarcasm.
The 'net is the greatest source of absolutely unfiltered, unqualified misinformation that has ever existed. There are nuggets out there, but you've got to look for them.
The 'net is the greatest source of absolutely unfiltered, unqualified misinformation that has ever existed. There are nuggets out there, but you've got to look for them.
There certainly is an "if it ain't american, it can't be good" mentality.
In fact there are very, very, very few documented cases of gun failures that aren't the result of user stupidity (e.g. bore obstructions, choice of the wrong powder, etc.), and when there are, the net and the media are all over it. I can't recall the last, that's how few there are.
In fact there are very, very, very few documented cases of gun failures that aren't the result of user stupidity (e.g. bore obstructions, choice of the wrong powder, etc.), and when there are, the net and the media are all over it. I can't recall the last, that's how few there are.
ILOVEPOTATOTES;
For yourself and others questioning the various 7.62x25 surplus available, there was extensive coverage on this I beleive last year on this very forum....
We published our chrono data on several brands, surplus and commercial....
The Czechs only used one loading, for bothe SMG and pistol use, both were to Warsaw Pact standards....
I find this statement very interesting "7.62x25mm Czech surplus actually has more stopping power than .45ACP. I won't bother going to find the numbers, but if someone challenges me on it, I will." Consider this a challenge my friend.... I look forward to seeing the data....
I assume you are making this claim based on personal use of the .45 in actual real life situations ? Having been involved with both I can assure you that the .45 will outperform the 7.62x25 at every turn.... Why do you think more and more of the US forces are drifting back to the "old" .45 ?
John
For yourself and others questioning the various 7.62x25 surplus available, there was extensive coverage on this I beleive last year on this very forum....
We published our chrono data on several brands, surplus and commercial....
The Czechs only used one loading, for bothe SMG and pistol use, both were to Warsaw Pact standards....
I find this statement very interesting "7.62x25mm Czech surplus actually has more stopping power than .45ACP. I won't bother going to find the numbers, but if someone challenges me on it, I will." Consider this a challenge my friend.... I look forward to seeing the data....
I assume you are making this claim based on personal use of the .45 in actual real life situations ? Having been involved with both I can assure you that the .45 will outperform the 7.62x25 at every turn.... Why do you think more and more of the US forces are drifting back to the "old" .45 ?
John
ANDY;
It sure is interesting, all this expert information on the 7.62x25....
You have the right idea, research and prove your statements....
Perhaps more folks could follow the example you have on our excellent site, research and illustrate what you are discussing rather than simply repeating un-proven,un-documented material
Just my thoughts
John
It sure is interesting, all this expert information on the 7.62x25....
You have the right idea, research and prove your statements....
Perhaps more folks could follow the example you have on our excellent site, research and illustrate what you are discussing rather than simply repeating un-proven,un-documented material
Just my thoughts
John
I have read that the 7.62 x 25 has exeptional penetrating power, ( will pierce throught body armour etc ) which is probably where the statement above started. Having done no tests I can not say for sure, but I would imagine it would have more penetrating ability that the .45. For what it's worth
I have read that the 7.62 x 25 has exeptional penetrating power, ( will pierce throught body armour etc ) which is probably where the statement above started. Having done no tests I can not say for sure, but I would imagine it would have more penetrating ability that the .45. For what it's worth
The .30carbine was not really considered an effective combat cartridge, and the 7.62Tok fires a lighter bullet 400fps slower. Body armour is basically rated by velocity, .22lr Stingers will defeat Level 1 body armour and .22WMR will defeat a higher level of body armour then 7.62Tok. 9mm luger can be loaded to higher velocities with 90g slugs then the standard Tok loading. It's really nothing special other then it's wonderful to have cheap guns and cheap surplus available to play with.
peckerwood
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- PalePony, Yukon
The ft/lbs level of the 7.62 TT is around 581-615 from what velocity numbers one can gather off the net. I have seen velocity reports around 1400-1720 fps for the Czech surplus...which is correct?...what gun was it fired from etc?...who knows...?
What I did find were these pics of an apparent gel block test using a CZ52 and some S&B ammo.
Penetration was also 1.4" into the sand box on the other side from what I read...I will do what I can to find the website that I sourced it from.
Pic of pistol along with ammo and gel block:
Pic of damage channel outlined:
Pic of recovered projectile from the sand:
What I did find were these pics of an apparent gel block test using a CZ52 and some S&B ammo.
Penetration was also 1.4" into the sand box on the other side from what I read...I will do what I can to find the website that I sourced it from.
Pic of pistol along with ammo and gel block:
Pic of damage channel outlined:
Pic of recovered projectile from the sand:
I think almost any caliber loaded with FMJ bullet can go thu 15.5" of jello (the tape measurer starts at 1.5" ) I'm sure some 9mm loads can do that with a HP...
this site has some info on different 7.62x25 ammo inc. velocity for different loads. http://members.nuvox.net/~on.melchar/tokarev/
Velocities seem to range from 1320 to 1540 fps for 455 ft-lbs max.
PS: the ft-lbs listed for Check ammo (487.8) is wrong, if you calculate it yourself yo only get 419ft-lbs...
) I'm sure some 9mm loads can do that with a HP...this site has some info on different 7.62x25 ammo inc. velocity for different loads. http://members.nuvox.net/~on.melchar/tokarev/
Velocities seem to range from 1320 to 1540 fps for 455 ft-lbs max.
PS: the ft-lbs listed for Check ammo (487.8) is wrong, if you calculate it yourself yo only get 419ft-lbs...
- Location
- Ontario, Kanada
I can't remember where I found this pic, but it is interesting...
I remember reading a whole wack of material about the penetration/power of the 7,62 Tok round a while ago, it included gell block tests and comparisons to other rounds. Ill attempt to find it.
I remember reading a whole wack of material about the penetration/power of the 7,62 Tok round a while ago, it included gell block tests and comparisons to other rounds. Ill attempt to find it.
- Location
- Downtown Vancouver, BC
You spelled my name wrong. No dice.
