7.62x25 Tokarevs And Indoor Ranges

Urban Tactical in Brantford Ontario will allow you to shoot anything in their indoor range. I sighted in my SVT40 there shooting Heavy Ball Machine Gun 7.62x54r all while a kid rented their 50 Cal rifle and sent two rounds down range. It was kind of nuts being indoors with all that boom!
 
Yikes. I brought a guest to my indoor range awhile back who was blasting off Tokarev - Just checked now to see if its allowed. Fortunately I just read through the rule book and there was no mention of steelcore/tokarev - Just prohibiting rifle cartridges.

Man was that sucker a firing breathing dragon though. It was spitting flames and debris like non-other, and even with hearing protection it made your body vibrate standing beside it. We dimmed the lights down to see how bright this thing was - It was blinding!
 
Calahan said:
Yeah, I get that the Tokarev's velocity is high (and the sectional density is high). But even with the 7.62's high sectional density and a bimetal jacketed lead core bullet, would the Tokarev really be more damaging to the backstop than, say, a hot 44Mag pushing bullets just as fast at over twice the weight? Or how about a 9mm +P, similar SD and energy to the Tokarev.

The issue with sparks from steel core/jacketed bullets creating a fire hazard sounds like a legitimate concern.

I appreciate all the input. Looks like I won't bother with a Tokarev.
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There is a penetration test of a 7.62x25 VS .44 magnum. The .44 magnum didn't even come close to what the 7.62x25 can do.
 
The range im with allows them and holy hell when the guy next to me starts shooting it I feel it in my chest! I love the feeling, makes me feel like im in a russian trench somewhere on the eastern front lol. I dont think the other guys and gals who are actually trying to get good groups take to kindly to it tho! Hahaha
 
I got a type 54 or whatever you call it through lever- came with 2 barrels- 1 9mm, 1 7.62, and 2 magazines- however you do also see them around from time to time- I got the tok as I have thousands of reloadable 9 and it's a drop in
 
OkayShooter said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62×25mm_Tokarev

5.5 g (85 gr) FMJ[3] 502 m/s (1,650 ft/s) 693 J (511 ft·lbf)
5.5 g (85 gr) FMJ[4] 525 m/s (1,720 ft/s) 760 J (560 ft·lbf)
5.5 g (85 gr) JHP[4] 510 m/s (1,700 ft/s) 715 J (527 ft·lbf)
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Yeah time to time you run into range members that have very little actual understanding of physics. Instead of logic they spout off either their own theories or repeat nonsense they have heard or read elsewhere that is factually incorrect. If the ban is because of steel core ammo, then fine, prohibit steel core for sparking or backstop damage issues. But when the "reason" is that the round is too fast for the backstop, then that becomes nonsense. That's like the idiotic ruling of prohibiting magnum rounds because they too damage the backstop (so the claim is made).

What causes damage is the kinetic energy in the round that is delivered to the target/backstop.
Does anyone know of a range that limits the use of 9mm copper plated rounds? No, of course not. Yet:

9x19 115grHP is 1400fps and 500ft.lbs
10mm 155gr is 1500fps and 774 ft.lbs
.40 S&W 155gr is 1205fps and 500 ft.lbs
.45 ACP 185gr is 1225fps and 616 ft.lbs

Compare those common indoor range guns to the lowly Tok and you can see who is actually pounding the backstop!
Does your range ban magnums?
357Mag 125gr is 1450fps and 583ft.lbs
22Mag 40gr is 2050fps and 324ft.lbs

Yes, others are more, some are less. Ultimately it comes down to respect. A known energy level of the backstop should be known and then ammo being used should stay below that cutoff point. Be respectful of the range, it is YOUR range! Damage it and it is damaged for all to use! Perhaps a list of acceptable ammo should be complied instead of banning a type of firearm!
 
I'm not a rocket physicist, but my own experiments shooting steel tells me velocity & SD is the primary culprit for penetration. I had no problems putting commercial .223 55gr fmj through a 5/8 mild steel plate at 100 yrds (mv-3239fps/me-1281ft-lbs) while steel jacket/core 7.62x39 (mv-2300fps/me-1445ft-lbs) only cratered.
Now angle that 45 degrees like an indoor backstop and damage is probably nil.
 
Calahan said:
Yeah, I get that the Tokarev's velocity is high (and the sectional density is high). But even with the 7.62's high sectional density and a bimetal jacketed lead core bullet, would the Tokarev really be more damaging to the backstop than, say, a hot 44Mag pushing bullets just as fast at over twice the weight? Or how about a 9mm +P, similar SD and energy to the Tokarev.

The issue with sparks from steel core/jacketed bullets creating a fire hazard sounds like a legitimate concern.

I appreciate all the input. Looks like I won't bother with a Tokarev.
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Velocity is what hurt the steel backstops, not the weight of the bullet. Just look at what a light little .223 or even the .17HMR bullet can do to steel. And at apparently something fairly well over 1600 fps from that loading data above you're looking at higher velocity than even most .357 and .44 mag rounds.

On top of that the steel jackets on surplus ammo tend to bounce around more than the more malleable copper jackets. And at an indoor range that can lead to a lot more bounce back. And also as noted the steel jackets against a steel backstop can generate some pretty good sparks.
 
my range is good for anything below 3400 fps. Above that you get spot heating of the AR500 plate even at the angle mounted and it craters. They allow centerfire rifle below that velocity. They only ban the steel core/jacket for fire reasons, and constant damage to the target system
 
The steel core surplus ammo has some real penetrating power. Shot my Tok at two pieces of dressed 4X4 posts that were at least a foot apart, and it passed on through both cleanly with ease.
 
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