7.62x25mm long-arms

There are several companies in the US making AR uppers in 7.62x25 both in blow-back and gas operated designs and since it's an upper and not a lower, no FRT would be required. Easy to import as parts for someone like IRG or any other company regularly importing parts from USA.

They take PPSH magazines with a magazine block that goes into the regular AR lower. Pin the PPSH magazines and they could be imported as well. The magazine block is just a part, no biggie to import.

So, what's needed is for someone to bring these things in :)
 
canmic said:
There are several companies in the US making AR uppers in 7.62x25 both in blow-back and gas operated designs and since it's an upper and not a lower, no FRT would be required. Easy to import as parts for someone like IRG or any other company regularly importing parts from USA.

They take PPSH magazines with a magazine block that goes into the regular AR lower. Pin the PPSH magazines and they could be imported as well. The magazine block is just a part, no biggie to import.

So, what's needed is for someone to bring these things in :)
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I tried fairly hard about 2 years ago to get an upper and as soon as the guy figured I was Canadian that was it. wouldn't even ship it to a FFL dealer in MT AR is the way to go
 
Manteo97 said:
The M1 carbine in 7.62 X 25 TOK is an interesting topic. I was contacted a few years ago to make one of my NR barrels (in Stainless steel) for this round. I did not have the correct reamer, and was not prepared to paid the $$ to buy a new one, but did play around with it for a bit. Found the following:

1. Most if not all of this surplus ammo is corrosive, hence the gas hole & chamber in the barrel stub would be very difficult to clean out, and subject to corrosion. I use the USGI barrel stub to accept a sleeved threaded barrel.

2. The TOK round fits quite nicely (staggered) into a std m1 carbine mag, but it will not feed. This cartridge is bottle shaped, as the round slides forward to chamber, as forced by the bolt, it will ride downward following the contour of the round below it. It jams on the feed ramp, and will not chamber.

3. The bolt face of the carbine bolt has to be opened up by about 0.060" dia to allow the base of the TOK round to seat on it. Some tweeking of the extractor is required too.

So, yes cheap surplus 7.62 X 25 is available now, but can this supply be endless?

So, to me, it made more sense economically to pull the 85 gr steel core bullets on the TOK, and reload my .30 carbine cartridge using this bullet (same powder load as the 110 gr.) MV is 2000 fps+
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Yeah I would imagine the small little carbine would have to be built from scratch. But with such a small caliber, there would not need to be very much meat on the receiver or barrel.
It would have to be designed around the TT33 Magazine to make it feed reliably.
It doesn't have to be an M1 action. Just resemble the rifle for simplicity of production. Hell it could even be a blow back or tilting bolt action. would not have to be very beefy or oversized.
A shrunken SVT-40 action but feeding 7.62mm Tokarev?
 
I'd like a bolt gun with about a 16" BBL that accepts the Tok mags. With a bolt gun, it would be easy enough to clean that I wouldn't worry about burning through a few thousand of the surplus rounds I have in the garage.
 
grelmar said:
I'd like a bolt gun with about a 16" BBL that accepts the Tok mags. With a bolt gun, it would be easy enough to clean that I wouldn't worry about burning through a few thousand of the surplus rounds I have in the garage.
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get your self a Spanish Destroyer Carbine and rebarrel it . google it.
 
gaff said:
get your self a Spanish Destroyer Carbine and rebarrel it . google it.
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yea no ive seen this done actually. the round is to hot for that lil carbine. it didn't take very many rounds before the bolt became very sticky and things started to stretch. plus its a single shot only option as the rounds are to long for the mag
 
Canada ammo talked about a project that used there P762 mag, which would be the smartest thing to use as its a double stack 10 rounder. all the rifles mentioned all have a not big enough mag or mag well to alow anything other than single shot other that the AR. the M1 carbine sorta works but not well
 
Beater said:
yea no ive seen this done actually. the round is to hot for that lil carbine. it didn't take very many rounds before the bolt became very sticky and things started to stretch. plus its a single shot only option as the rounds are to long for the mag
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I wonder if the Destroyer carbine is strong enough for .38 Super.
 
cyclone said:
I wonder if the Destroyer carbine is strong enough for .38 Super.
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lots do it. the destroyers are not a high grade rifle, mostly cottage made parts and quality goes from " I wouldn't dare shoot that" to high quality. I have one that must have been made for someone special, the most beautiful walnut wood you have ever seen, cast buttplate just like a Winchester, deep rich blueing and beutifull workmanship. as for the most of them ive seen I'm not sure id put my face beside it with 38 super or anything other than 9 largo
 
Rebarrel a bubba Spanish Destroyer Carbine bolt action. Works well. I did one for my grandson. The feed issues mentioned earlier are not difficult to fix. The round is a bit to long to fit into the regular Destroyer mags but this is an easy fix as well if you reload at all. I just pushed the bullets a bit further back into the case until they easily fit into the mag. The TT33 mags are very close dimensionally so with a bit of tinkering the mag well could easily be adapted to fit them. No fooling around with the bolt face or extractor is necessary.

If you have the opportunity to look at the M96 Mauser broom handle pistol cartridge feed ramp from the mag well you will see the ramp has a very shallow angle. The same angle has to be used for the rifle to feed well.

If you look at the TT33 mag and at the other mags, such as the M1 Carbine and Destroyer the angle of the feed lips is far more exaggerated on the TT33. This is necessary to keep the bullet nose elevated enough to hit the ramp guide way rather than bind on the lip.

Lots of little things to be taken care of before all works well but if it can work with other firearms there is no good reason why it can't work with others. The Chinese converted thousands of M1 Carbines to 7.62x25 and I'm willing to bet many other nations that had access to the handy little rifles did the same. A few years back Lever Arms in Vancouver had a couple for sale from a shipment of surplus that I believe came from Viet Nam. I went and had a look as I was in the area. The rifles had seen a lot of heavy use and showed it all over. I would have ranked them as FAIR only. The bores were washed out and heavily pitted. The exteriors were in similar condition. The thing I was interested in were the mags and feed ramps. Both had been altered to alleviate proper feeding of the cartridge. NO, I didn't purchase one . They would have been to much trouble for me to make into usable platforms. Great for collectors though.

Another great candidate for this nice little cartridge is one of the Rodney Dangerfield rifles I come across fairly regularly. The M1907 Winchester semi Auto rifle. I see these regularly being offered at low prices in condition from Fair to Excellent. Ammo is damnably expensive and uncommon for these great little rifles and hasn't been produced for a long time. They are also a blow back design and don't have a gas system to maintain. Very easy to clean. I don't know whether a TT33 mag could be adapted or not. The thing is, once the TT33 mag has been adapted it would no longer be legal for use in the rifle.
 
I shoot 9x23, 9x19, 9x21, 380 acp, 9mm Bergman, 38 Super and 9mm Browning Long out of my Destroyer regularly. They are tougher than most people think. I can see exactly why beater made his comments so this isn't a flame in any way.

The Spanish Destroyers were made for police as well as commercial use. Most were made in 9mm Bergman that I have seen. Many had their barrels set back and were converted to 9x19 after being shipped to Canada. One thing to remember with these rifles is that they were Proofed by the Spanish government before being released for sale. Most of the cartridges l listed have very similar pressure curves. The most extreme of the lot would be the 9x23.

One thing I will mention, is that my rifle is in excellent condition with a perfect bore. It is reasonably accurate with ammo it likes and it seems to like everything other than the Chinese bulk 9mm that came out a few years ago. Everything else is accurate out to 50 meters and beyond. If my CZ wasn't such a great rabbit rifle out to 150m I wouldn't feel under armed with the Destroyer.
 
I have had lots of them to. I personally think your mighty brave shooting 9x23 in yours, no flame intended at all ether. I love the mint one I have and load for it the one I had that was re bbled to TOK, I got very creative and got another mag well, I split them both short and short, then welded them back together so the TOK mag would fit it. I had to cut the tang back and redrill the hole for the mainscrew. it was a simple thing to cut a notch in the mag for the lock bar. it worked and fed very well
 
There were some around about 20 years ago.I looked one over in the barrel shop I was working at.It was semi auto and made in Europe.Unfortunately I don't remember who made it.
 
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