7.62x39 Green Tip

Interesting. What's the headstamp?

EDIT: I've looked through my copy of Jane's Ammunition Handbook and all indications point to it being tracer. The only other option listed that doesn't include a tracer element (which admittedly may not be the ONLY one) is Chinese armor piercing incendiary.

What's more likely is that it IS Czech tracer and the element failed to ignite, or some unscrupulous seller painted the tips himself to swindle an unsuspecting buyer. If you're able to pull one of the bullets it will be immediately clear which is true.
 
Last edited:
AK,
Thanks for the very detailed post.
You said:

What I find odd and still haven't been able to figure out, is how this community prides itself on being responsible and law-abiding when it comes to firearms law but explosives laws seem to be casually ignored.

My take on that is that if good, solid, reasonably intelligent, law-abiding citizens cannot come to an agreement about what the law states, then perhaps the law is flawed.

I have recently deleted any mention of tracer in the Newbie FAQ Section thing I wrote, as I was not clear on the issue.

Your point about starting fires is very valid. I saw a small fire start at Ft Lewis, WA, when I was down there during my CF Reserve days.
I wouldnt want to be the guy that started a huge forest fire in BC.


emmab,
I recall someone saying that he bought a full crate from Lever and found almost none of them lit. Poor storage, perhaps?
 
tootall said:
AK,
Thanks for the very detailed post.
You said:

What I find odd and still haven't been able to figure out, is how this community prides itself on being responsible and law-abiding when it comes to firearms law but explosives laws seem to be casually ignored.

My take on that is that if good, solid, reasonably intelligent, law-abiding citizens cannot come to an agreement about what the law states, then perhaps the law is flawed.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, except the government regulatory agency responsible for them has made the law very clear. If that were not the case you would still see tracers on store shelves, as without a legal basis ERD would not have had the authority to remove them. That alone should give anyone pause to reconsider.

Again, I thank you for your civility! Cordial discourse is always so much more pleasant.
 
AK said:
I've been an expert witness in federal court, an adviser to explosives manufacturers, and a consultant to the US Army Criminal Investigation Laboratory. What are your credentials?
Click to expand...

You are kidding right?...My credentials?.. not sure if I have any other than I am a Canadian who was raised believing that freedom comes at a price Im willing to pay for.

You on the other hand may have some serious issues.

This is a forum dedicated to hunting and having fun and enjoying our great outdoors.. not an application to work for the FBI... As far as tracers are concerned, I have a few but will only use them if stranded some where to get attention to my location. If nrcan has a problem with that , they can call me.
 
7mmlefty said:
You are kidding right?...My credentials?.. not sure if I have any other than I am a Canadian who was raised believing that freedom comes at a price Im willing to pay for.

You on the other hand may have some serious issues.

This is a forum dedicated to hunting and having fun and enjoying our great outdoors.. not an application to work for the FBI... As far as tracers are concerned, I have a few but will only use them if stranded some where to get attention to my location. If nrcan has a problem with that , they can call me.
Click to expand...
So you acknowledge that you have no qualifications that afford you expertise on the subject yet you talk out of your rear as if you do. Maybe you should be putting in an application to the Coalition for Gun Control with that skill set.
 
AK said:
Perhaps, except the government regulatory agency responsible for them has made the law very clear. If that were not the case you would still see tracers on store shelves, as without a legal basis ERD would not have had the authority to remove them. That alone should give anyone pause to reconsider.

Again, I thank you for your civility! Cordial discourse is always so much more pleasant.
Click to expand...

So, we're in the "peanut gallery" if we question your omniscience...if we agree to your diatribe its civil and Cordial!?...I had a high school teacher like that, the main difference here being I don't have to play your game.
Any lawyer would tell you that if a law is untested in court its a crap shoot at best as to how it will be interpreted as written..."Case Law"? Juras Prudence anyone? No? Well then, perhaps there is need for caution, but to say it's Illegal is quite a stretch without actually having a Judge chime in on the subject.
 
AK said:
So you acknowledge that you have no qualifications that afford you expertise on the subject yet you talk out of your rear as if you do. Maybe you should be putting in an application to the Coalition for Gun Control with that skill set.
Click to expand...


You seem to be on track with the coalition for ammo control, it may be a good idea to check where youre talking from..
 
tootall said:
AK,
Thanks for the very detailed post.
You said:

What I find odd and still haven't been able to figure out, is how this community prides itself on being responsible and law-abiding when it comes to firearms law but explosives laws seem to be casually ignored.

My take on that is that if good, solid, reasonably intelligent, law-abiding citizens cannot come to an agreement about what the law states, then perhaps the law is flawed.

I have recently deleted any mention of tracer in the Newbie FAQ Section thing I wrote, as I was not clear on the issue.

Your point about starting fires is very valid. I saw a small fire start at Ft Lewis, WA, when I was down there during my CF Reserve days.
I wouldnt want to be the guy that started a huge forest fire in BC.


emmab,
I recall someone saying that he bought a full crate from Lever and found almost none of them lit. Poor storage, perhaps?
Click to expand...

Laws unclear or not easily understood by the average layperson. I know nothing of the "Explosives regulatory commision or blah blah whatever it is! No has ever told me (besides AK in these forums) that I need to check the explosives act before I buy my ammunition for legality, The only thing I know for sure is that NRCAN told the dealer to pull the tracer off the shelf and stop selling it because it was not approved for import. (from the dealers mouth)

It did not go through the approval process so it could not be legaly brought into the Country. Now that is not to say that existing tracer in Country before these regs came into effect is illegal just that no more could be brought in unless it went through the approval process and was approved for import. I am not a commercial entity and have no idea how the explosive act may be applicable to me but I suspect if it is I would need a Lawyer to interpret it for me.

Our firearms Laws are hard enough to try to navigate safely as a gun owner now I need to listen to an explosive commision that I had always thought had regulated the commercial industry and thus legal ammunition availability for purchase by civilians. I have not heard of any enforcement of tracer rounds being bought/sold or used by individuals and I hope we don't, I'm not counting on it though if indeed they are actually illegal and always have been.
 
AK said:
Heaven forbid that people be armed with facts instead of mistruths and disinformation. Isn't that what this entire community spends millions of dollars fighting against? How ironic. Don't forget to throw CanAm under the bus with me while you're at it.

When someone posts "tracers are legal", that is false and could potentially get someone in trouble. I suppose since I know better I should just say nothing because breaking this law is "no big deal" right? No one's ever been charged with it so it must be okay, right? Or perhaps someone DID get charged and you don't know about it. There's more going through the court system than what your local newspaper prints.

The whole idea here is to NOT have "unsuspecting, uninformed gun owners". Information is our greatest asset yet you seem content to sweep this issue under the rug, hoping that no one gets caught. That's a pretty ignorant policy if you ask me, given what someone stands to lose.

Rather than shooting the messenger perhaps you should direct your attitude towards your legislators to have the law amended. I didn't write it.
Click to expand...

Like i said before - the people you're "arming with facts" are mainly law enforcement officials, that will use these facts to slap people with charges (and huge fines). There are literally millions of law abiding gun owners who have never heard of CGN. Almost all of them are able to purchase tracers (as they are sold on almost every gun show as well as online). Almost all of them will never hear about the regs you're posting about.
However, it takes just a few LEO's to see your posts and spread this information around and make it known to the majority of their colleagues in the country. They actually have a system in place designed to spread information fast and efficiently. Thanks to your efforts, its likely that it has happened already, and its just a matter of time before people start getting charged left right and center.

As for CanAm, i can tell you with certainty that he has never mentioned these regs on CGN until you started posting about them. Wouldnt surprise me if he was one of the people you "educated". The fact that one of the largest ammo dealers in the country didnt even know about these regs until your posts says something.

As i mentioned before, the percentage of LEO's you "educated" on the issue is FAR greater than the percentage of potential tracer users. You were told to (and you agreed to) stop when you first started this, a long time ago. The fact that you're continuing your "crusade" despite this says that you're either a) Stupid b) Have an agenda against gun owners. Based on the overall tone and style of your posts i dont think it's "a".
 
Last edited:
CanAm said:
Please do not speculate as to what I know or when I knew it.

My info came from a meeting with NRCAN several years ago.
Click to expand...

Sure, you might or might not have known about these regs before AK, but you never posted anything about them until he started his "educational CGN crusade".
If you knew, but chose not to spread it (until AK started doing it anyway), hats off to you.
 
zZ_denis said:
You were told to (and you agreed to) stop when you first started this, a long time ago. The fact that you're continuing your "crusade" despite this says that you're either a) Stupid b) Have an agenda against gun owners. Based on the overall tone and style of your posts i dont think it's "a".
Click to expand...
Who ever told me to stop posting this information, and who exactly are you to suggest that I should? You sound like someone who is interested in breaking the law and just keeping people quiet about it rather than following the law as we ought to. Around here we call that a criminal. I wonder what else you have to hide? Since you're concerned that LE is going to be learning about this matter you tacitly acknowledge there is some legal basis behind what I'm saying. You just don't want it to be said out loud.

As for your personal ad hominem attacks that shows you really have no factual information to argue with and hope to win on emotion. You and Piers Morgan would get along well. Unfortunately I don't get as worked up as you do and fly into a hate-filled rage.

For the record I really don't care if someone has tracers, unpinned mags, illegal guns, etc. What I do care about is bad information that would cause someone to think something is completely and totally legal when, at best, it is grey area (I will concede you that). People should be able to make informed decisions and act accordingly, and if they choose to continue to buy/use tracers that's their own decision.

I was actually going to let the whole tracer thing go because I was getting tired of talking to the wall, but you've inspired me to carry on simply out of spite.
 
Last edited:
AK said:
Who ever told me to stop posting this information, and who exactly are you to suggest that I should? You sound like someone who is interested in breaking the law and just keeping people quiet about it rather than following the law as we ought to. Around here we call that a criminal. I wonder what else you have to hide? Since you're concerned that LE is going to be learning about this matter you tacitly acknowledge there is some legal basis behind what I'm saying. You just don't want it to be said out loud.

As for your personal ad hominem attacks that shows you really have no factual information to argue with and hope to win on emotion. You and Piers Morgan would get along well. Unfortunately I don't get as worked up as you do and fly into a hate-filled rage.

For the record I really don't care if someone has tracers, unpinned mags, illegal guns, etc. What I do care about is bad information that would cause someone to think something is completely and totally legal when, at best, it is grey area (I will concede you that). People should be able to make informed decisions and act accordingly, and if they choose to continue to buy/use tracers that's their own decision.

I was actually going to let the whole tracer thing go because I was getting tired of talking to the wall, but you've inspired me to carry on simply out of spite.
Click to expand...

A couple of years ago (or so), it was pointed out to you that posting about these regs in every single tracer thread will do more harm than good (to general public). You agreed, and said you would stop posting about it. I'll dig up that thread if you really need me to, but im sure you remember exactly what im talking about.

Im not interested in breaking the law.
Im interested in not providing astute LEO's with more bs regulations to charge people with. They already have plenty.
Im not interested in reading a Star article tomorrow about a fellow law abiding gun owner slapped with a 250k fine for buying a tracer at a gun show for his collection, just because he doesnt follow your posts on CGN.

And please, dont bring up "winning with emotion". Im not the one accusing others of "being a criminal" and "hiding stuff" based on ZERO "factual information" whatsoever. Sounds like something an anti journalist would do. Ironic how you compared me to one.

And finally, sayng that my posts sound like "hate-filled rage" make me doubt my conclusion about you in my previous post (last sentence of post #52)
 
Well like I said in the Ammo section, are we ready to declare each other official CGN Arch Enemies? I call dibs on the black costume and maniacal laugh!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom