7.62x39.....is it a MBR cartridge ?

Davy Crockett said:
Do you feel better now? Now that you got that out of your system, did you read this?
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Actually, it makes no difference to me. I'm sure these silly definitions are very important and meaningful in your world. Speaking for myself as ex-military and a veteran, your definitions are worthless in our world. We all have opinions, the military or its personal does not subscribe to yours.

Let me pop a few of these tiny rounds past your ears, and you'll discover exactly how worthless is your point of view.
 
And again, Fiddler, you are missing the point. Use in combat doesn't mean a thing to the definition.

"Battle Rifle" and "Assault Rifle" are simply terms used to define a class of firearm. It's like bolt action, or pump action. They are just types of firearms classes.
 
Yup

Armedsask said:
Just because you don't something doesn't make it so.

I'm only going to say this one more time and then I'm done talking in circles with you morons;
Use in battle or combat doesn't mean two s**ts in the definition of Battle Rifle.

Read my first post, actually read it. Then stop trying to over complicate things. 7.62x39 is, BY DESIGN, an intermediate cartridge. It, by the intent of the designer, is not possible to be used in a Battle Rifle.
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Wasn't trying to disprove or prove anyone's definitions -

"The term battle rifle is not defined or frequently used in military field manuals and government documents. There are some government requisition documents[10] that do make mention of a specific rifle as a battle rifle, but those documents may simply be using the manufacturer's marketing name (similar to how Springfield Armory's M14 clone is trademarked as the M1A). Because of this issue, deciding what exact characteristics of a rifle should make it a battle rifle are a matter of contention." - Wikipedia

THAT point I do agree with, but I'm happy to see how passionate you are about the subject! However, a point that can be argued with lots of different POV's brought up doesn't make us morons because someone decided to throw that definition in some book just like slang is showing up in the dictionary simply because people use it.
 
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Even if you converted an M14 or a G3 or an FAL to fire 7.62x39, the cartridge does not act like .30-06 or .308 or 7.62x54R or 7.5x55 or any well known 'full sized' rifle cartridge.

The round was designed as, and performs like, an intermediate cartridge. Call it what you will, it's what it does that counts.
 
Armedsask said:
This is why we can't have this discussion, there's always someone that thinks "battle rifle" means any rifle used in battle. :rolleyes:
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But we can have this discussion. Your definition of the MBR is neither the government's (the one ordering the wars), nor the military's (the ones fighting the battles). It's just words then.
Let's not forget that many fullpower black powder cartridges have less muzzle energy than the 7.62x39. This makes the "full power" part of your definition really weak.
 
My definition is the correct, commonly accepted definition. Also, did you really just bring up black powder firearms as a reason to refute this definition?

Come on people! This is not that complicated.
 
This is getting ridiculous.

It is a classification term.

Known as Battle rifles: FN FAL, G3, M14 ect. They fire FULL SIZE CARTRIDGES.

Known as Assault rifles: M16, AK47, SA80 ect. They fire INTERMEDIATE CARTRIDGES.

And yes, I am in the military since you people insist on that and I know the goddamn difference between the two terms! The term "assault rifle" for instance was coined by the Germans in WW2 (Hitler specifically) and the term stuck for that class of arms. And the AK family are assault rifles that fire intermediate cartridges, which is what the X39 is, whether you like it or not!:HR:
 
Armedsask said:
My definition is the correct, commonly accepted definition. Also, did you really just bring up black powder firearms as a reason to refute this definition?

Come on people! This is not that complicated.
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nope, I brought the black powder in order to show that the meaning of full-power cartridges changes in time. Therefore your definition is shifting. Hence there's no "end of discussion".
 
J996 said:
This is getting ridiculous.

It is a classification term.

Known as Battle rifles: FN FAL, G3, M14 ect. They fire FULL SIZE CARTRIDGES.

Known as Assault rifles: M16, AK47, SA80 ect. They fire INTERMEDIATE CARTRIDGES.

And yes, I am in the military since you people insist on that and I know the goddamn difference between the two terms! The term "assault rifle" for instance was coined by the Germans in WW2 (Hitler specifically) and the term stuck for that class of arms. And the AK family are assault rifles that fire intermediate cartridges, which is what the X39 is, whether you like it or not!:HR:
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Well then enlighten the non-military guys here and quote from the military manuals what battle rifles are.
I've never heard this term while serving my tours.
 
They taught you that your C1 or C7 (depending on when you were in) was a shoulder fired, gas operated, magazine fed rifle and so on, right? They did not go into weapons classification terminology, hence why you can't find reference to it. And why would they? You needed to know that it was a RIFLE and that was it.
 
J996 said:
They taught you that your C1 or C7 (depending on when you were in) was a shoulder fired, gas operated, magazine fed rifle and so on, right? They did not go into weapons classification terminology, hence why you can't find reference to it. And why would they? You needed to know that it was a RIFLE and that was it.
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I think that some people were just pointing out that in terms of common military vocabulary "battle rifle" isn't terrible consistent. If you only look at American forces they pretty regularly call a duck a duck. But among worldwide military terminology its inconsistently used or absent. And its this issue that makes some people debate what exactly it means.

However, I entirely agree with you that full power cartridge equals battle rifle at the very least because of traditional categorization practices and that intermediate rounds are not MBR rounds precisely because they were meant to serve a different purpose from full power rounds.
 
Actually I think you guys are totally off.

I have always been under the impression that "main battle rifle" means, the primary rifle employed in battle conditions.

What is the main battle tank? What is the main air superiority fighter? What is the main battle rifle?

The main battle rifle seems to be more of a carry over from when that's how things were labled. The M14 is no longer a main battle rifle, but it used to be. The M16 could be classified as the main battle rifle of the US Army, the C7 could be classified as the main battle rifle of the Canadian forces. The important word here is "main."

main1    
[meyn] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
chief in size, extent, or importance; principal; leading: the company's main office; the main features of a plan. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/main)

In this context "main battle rifle" does not apply to a class of firearm, simply to the selected firearm of an armed force.

I think that some people took main battle rifle to mean the m1/m14, which is the time frame the saying came from, and not as an associated title.
 
J996 said:
They taught you that your C1 or C7 (depending on when you were in) was a shoulder fired, gas operated, magazine fed rifle and so on, right? They did not go into weapons classification terminology, hence why you can't find reference to it. And why would they? You needed to know that it was a RIFLE and that was it.
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ya, ya, ya...where are the quotes?
 
I always thought MBR was an individual class as opposed CQB rifles due to caliber and the fact the lighter caliber CQB black rifles recoil is easier to handle in close where quick follow ups may be necessary while MBR's with larger caliber would be used out a little farther in an offensive or defensive battle where the 5.56 or 7.62x39 wouldn't effectively reach.
 
legi0n said:
ya, ya, ya...where are the quotes?
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These terms exist regardless of your insistance on having them quoted from a Canadian Forces publication (hold your breath while I pull the FM out of my a**). Perhaps some of the weapons techs who are members here can explain the concept of intermediate rounds to you if the rest of us are not good enough for you.
I'm done explaining this BS.
To the OP, I hope we have answered your question.
To those that still dont get it, you can call the 9mm a battle rifle cartridge for all I care.
Thank you and goodnight.
 
What is the definition of 'Full power Rifle Cartridge"?

There is NO accepted definition.

Wasn't the 7.62X39 used in a machine gun first? Is that not full power?

Seems like someone has a hard on for Wiki answers.

I vote YES for 7.62x39 being a MBR Cartridge. Because I agree with NavyCuda. The AK IS Their Main Battle Rifle
 
Intermediate cartridge. @ 7:58

Not sure what's so hard to understand about that.

[youtube]igUaCWhA66E[/youtube]

For the record, making up your own classifications for it does not make you sound as inventively clever as Kalashnikov. Just a bit mentally challenged...
 
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