7.62x39.....is it a MBR cartridge ?

Actually I think you guys are totally off.

I have always been under the impression that "main battle rifle" means, the primary rifle employed in battle conditions.

What is the main battle tank? What is the main air superiority fighter? What is the main battle rifle?

The main battle rifle seems to be more of a carry over from when that's how things were labled. The M14 is no longer a main battle rifle, but it used to be. The M16 could be classified as the main battle rifle of the US Army, the C7 could be classified as the main battle rifle of the Canadian forces. The important word here is "main."

main1    
[meyn] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
chief in size, extent, or importance; principal; leading: the company's main office; the main features of a plan. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/main)

In this context "main battle rifle" does not apply to a class of firearm, simply to the selected firearm of an armed force.

I think that some people took main battle rifle to mean the m1/m14, which is the time frame the saying came from, and not as an associated title.

WOW. Your way off. The reason you think its the m14/m1A is because you don't know firearm history well enough. The m14/m1a were the last AMERICAN battle rifles in service. They switched to intermediate cartridges at that time... They wanted to incorporate full auto into the standard small arms (yes I'm aware a real m14 can be full auto) But the 7.62 nato was too powerful and largely uncontrolable for the average soldier. 7.62 x 39 is an intermediate cartridge by design because its a NECKED DOWN 7.62 x 54 r. Its a smaller version of a large round (same powerclass as a 30-06).

Also to the guy who said 7.62 x 39 was in an LMG and that it is a MBR round because of that made me LOL. Machine guns fire anything the designer puts into them. anything from 22LR to 50 BMG....and all the calibres in between.
 
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They taught you that your C1 or C7 (depending on when you were in) was a shoulder fired, gas operated, magazine fed rifle and so on, right? They did not go into weapons classification terminology, hence why you can't find reference to it. And why would they? You needed to know that it was a RIFLE and that was it.

I can only speak from thirty-three years full-time service in the British Army. But my first twenty years were spent shooting the SLR [the British version of the FAL].

It was always called a rifle.

The book about the FAL calls it 'FAL - the World's Battle Rifle'.

The inventor, Dieudonne Saive, and the makers FN, have always called it a rifle - the very name FAL, means light automatic rifle.

My official training manuals right here in front of me call it a rifle.

I had never heard the term 'battle rifle' but I read the words sometime in the 1980's, and understood it to mean an infantry arm that fired a full-size cartridge, rather than an intermediate cartridge like the Soviet 7.62x39.

Having mixed with real Russian and FSU troops on the ground during the Cold war and afterwards, I can tell you that they NEVER refer to the AK-series even as an 'assault rifle' - to them, the assault rifle is the WW2 German invention that bore the very name 'Sturmgewehr' - assault rifle.

The Swiss have/had the StG58 - their version of the assault rifle, that fired the full-size 7.5x55 cartridge, but it is intersting to see that its replacement is simply called a 'gewehr' - rifle.

Basically, to me, at least, an assault rifle is a short rifle or carbine that is designed to be carried by mechanised infantry who deploy or even fight from a MICV. As such it is compact and also shoots an intermediate cartridge.

Ahah! I hear you say, but what about our current crop of Western small arms - compact, fire a small cartridge and used by mechanised infantry.

OK, BUT the 5.56x45 was NOT designed as a military round in the fust place, but it began life as the .222Remington - a sporting RIFLE cartridge.

The argument will carry on, but ask the guys who use them what they call their guns. We never called the appalling SA80 an assault rilfe, and no Canadian soldier I ever met anywhere called HIS gun an assault rifle, nor did any American seviceman either. Even the ultra-compact Steyr AUG is STILL called the Army Universal RIFLE.

tac
 
The term "Red Rifles" came about because all the Bubba's and chuckle heads who bleed SKS were plugging up the real forums with their stupidity.

Quoted for truth and awesomeness.

The differences between "assault rifles" and "main battle rifles" are pretty cut and dry, as far as *this forum* is concerned. To argue otherwise is verbal masturbation but there is no shortage of that on CGN, and it has never stopped anyone here before.

A spade by any other name... is still a spade. The C7A2 and SA80 are both refered to as 'rifles' by their respective armies. We can argue day and night about what to call what, but in the end, a boomstick is a boomstick.
 
The differences between "assault rifles" and "main battle rifles" are pretty cut and dry
According to internet forums, in the real world the term means nothing as there are so many variations of guns and how they are deployed/used that they can fit into more than on category. You're doing exactly what the anti-gunners do, put a sub-lable onto something that already has one.

To argue otherwise is verbal masturbation
Armedsask's hand must be all cramped up by now. :D
 
tacfoley +1
Main Battle Rifle and Assault Rifle are folk taxonomic words. Sort of like black man or green vegetables. You know what they mean but there's no scientific/empirical definition and is only understood on a localized or cultural level. Most firearms owners know what it is meant by Main Battle Rifle, but no official government manual has stated what is an MBR or an AR. I'm looking at my M14 field manual right now and it doesn't describe the M14 as an MBR. Hey! It's even online.

Manual FM 23-8
a. M14 Rifle.
(1) The U.S. rifle, 7.62mm, M14 (fig. 1) is
a lightweight, air-cooled, gas operated,
magazine-fed, shoulder weapon. It is designed
primarily for semiautomatic fire.
(2) When employed as an automatic rifle, the
selector and biped M2 must be installed
(fig. 2).
(3) The flash suppressor is designed with a
wide rib on the bottom to reduce muzzle
climb and the amount of dust raised by
muzzle blast.
(4) The lug on the rear of the flash suppressor
is used to secure a bayonet, a grenade
launcher, and B blank firing attachment.
(5) The spindle valve is used when launching
a grenade to prevent gas operation of the
rifle, thus avoiding damage to the weapon.
 
According to internet forums, in the real world the term means nothing as there are so many variations of guns and how they are deployed/used that they can fit into more than on category. You're doing exactly what the anti-gunners do, put a sub-lable onto something that already has one.

Guess you stopped reading after I said 'dry'. :p
 
How could the FAL be a battle rifle? It was originally intended to be chambered for the German intermediate cartridge 7.92x33mm kurz. Or was it that British round? I can't remember but it was redesigned to accept 7.62x51.

While the m16 did become called an Assault Rifle, something the AR in the name was erroneously associated with, it was technically the main battle rifle of the US Army, as in it's configuration theoretically had close to the same effective range as the M14 even if in real life it couldn't achieve those results.
 
How could the FAL be a battle rifle? It was originally intended to be chambered for the German intermediate cartridge 7.92x33mm kurz. Or was it that British round? I can't remember but it was redesigned to accept 7.62x51.

While the m16 did become called an Assault Rifle, something the AR in the name was erroneously associated with, it was technically the main battle rifle of the US Army, as in it's configuration theoretically had close to the same effective range as the M14 even if in real life it couldn't achieve those results.

Sir - you are not reading me.

The inventor of the FAL called it a rifle.

The makers of the FAL called it a rifle.

The users call it a rifle. Still do.

The authors of every book about the FAL called it a rifle.

The military training pamphlets of every nation that adopted it called it a rifle.

It is still called a rifle - the name - Fusil - means 'rifle' in the language of the inventor and original manufacturer, FN.

Please show me where the FAL is called an assault rifle.

Please show me where the M16 is called an assault rifle.

Please put me in contact with any member of the Canadian Armed forces, who, at any time, called ANY weapon in his hands 'an 'assault rifle'.

tac
 
This thread has been highly entertaining.

Well, yeah.

But you have used it for your own sick purposes to invent the .22LR main battle rifle. I'm gonna go hug my .17 HMR field artillery now. Just before I have to fly my Jeep Grande Cherokee race car to work.

This whole delusions of grandeur thing is fun.
 
From what I gather a Main Battle Rifle is more historic than anything and not in current use on any large scale except being adopted into Sniper rifles. What about Mauser 96 6.5x55, SMLE .303, Springfield 30-06, etc? Are not these MBR's too?
 
From what I gather a Main Battle Rifle is more historic than anything and not in current use on any large scale except being adopted into Sniper rifles. What about Mauser 96 6.5x55, SMLE .303, Springfield 30-06, etc? Are not these MBR's too?
Yup, those are all classed as battle rifles as they fire a full power cartridge.
 
What is the definition of 'Full power Rifle Cartridge"?

There is NO accepted definition.

Wasn't the 7.62X39 used in a machine gun first? Is that not full power?

Seems like someone has a hard on for Wiki answers.

I vote YES for 7.62x39 being a MBR Cartridge. Because I agree with NavyCuda. The AK IS Their Main Battle Rifle

Most countries have switched to 5.45x39.

Also, this term 'Main Battle Rifle' does not exist. It is a misnomer. Even 'Battle Rifle' is questionable. Perhaps you are looking for the term 'Service Rifle'.
 
Most countries have switched to 5.45x39.

Also, this term 'Main Battle Rifle' does not exist. It is a misnomer. Even 'Battle Rifle' is questionable. Perhaps you are looking for the term 'Service Rifle'.
Nope, service rifle is the rifles used by a military. A battle rifle or assault rifle can both be service rifles.

I don't understand why people find this so hard to grasp.
 
So from the definitions that I have read here on this thread, it would be something like this.

SVT-40: Main battle rifle, it does use the 7.62x54R.

SKS/AK: assault rifle. Uses a smaller round designed from the former one.

Seems pretty simple to me although I dont much care to label them as such.
 
7.62x39 definitely started as a MBR cartridge, but these days its Made By Poland, Made By Czech, Made By Croatia, Made By Finland, Made By Serbia, Made By China, hell its even Made By America!!!
 
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