7.62x39 VS 7.62x54. Much improvement? Better for hunting? Any good rifles at x54?
- Thread starter smitas5
- Start date
safehunter
Regular
- Location
- South Western Onterrible
m44 usually has the bayonet fixed. Cutting it is sacrilegious. If you're paying $400 get a proper hunting rifle.
Only reason to hunt with a 91/30 is an extremely limited budget - or you're crazy enough to enjoy the challenge of hunting with a milsurp - k 2 reasons.
Only reason to hunt with a 91/30 is an extremely limited budget - or you're crazy enough to enjoy the challenge of hunting with a milsurp - k 2 reasons.
Most people who hunt with a 30-30 use 170 grain bullets. Hunting softpoints for x39 is 125gr unless you roll your own. There is a very large difference in energy from a 170gr bullet compared to a 125gr bullet. Unless its a real small deer or very close, X39 is at the lower end of the energy scale.
safehunter
Regular
- Location
- South Western Onterrible
You'd be better off with a winchester 94 or a marlin 336 in 30-30 IMHO. Both can be had off the EE for under $500. Both are proven hunting rifles good for 200 yards.
What you say is true and since the OP is new to hunting I would suggest he do the same.
That being said there is a certain element of enjoyment when hunting with a milsurp, the 91/30 in particular. I've used it off and on for the last few years and absolutely enjoy the added challenge it provides. So if the OP is willing to put in the extra effort needed to master the Mosin I say go for it.
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Most X54 ammo around is milsurp. By the time you buy or load softpoint, sight in your soft point, and put a optic on; you have a marginally accurate hunting rifle, with more invested once you factor in the ammo>>>>>than if you just bought a decent rifle used on the EE.
Enjoy your Mosin for cheap plinking and SHTF rifle, buy yourself a 30-06 from Tradex. Cheap silver box Winchester available everywhere. Your idea has merit for other firearms, but in this case your putting lipstick on a pig.
Enjoy your Mosin for cheap plinking and SHTF rifle, buy yourself a 30-06 from Tradex. Cheap silver box Winchester available everywhere. Your idea has merit for other firearms, but in this case your putting lipstick on a pig.
If you don't have a moisin and want a hunting rifle...that would not be the first choice for a purchase. OTOH if you already have a Moisin...take it (as is) for a hunting trip. If it works for you fine..although betting is you will investigate other commercial options sooner rather than later. For fun at the range..different story...and very personal choice. Someone once said it's a lot more satisfying driving a slow car fast...than driving a fast car fast! I think is somewhat the same for many guys and their interest in the older milsurps...
Check out a new Rem 783 or Axis in .308 that comes with a scope or close to it.
You can always shoot surplus .308 ammo with that. If you're looking for one gun to do it all and has surplus ammo capability.
They are cheaper than Zastava M85 with scope and rings included at Canadian Tire plus a $40 rebate for the Remington.
You can always shoot surplus .308 ammo with that. If you're looking for one gun to do it all and has surplus ammo capability.
They are cheaper than Zastava M85 with scope and rings included at Canadian Tire plus a $40 rebate for the Remington.
I will read more on Savage axis II .308, seems people are very happy... One thing I notice, people do mention that its nice for a price... Meaning there are lots of room for improovement.
So having rifle at .308, what type of surplus can you buy for it? Is there mil stuff for it too?
So having rifle at .308, what type of surplus can you buy for it? Is there mil stuff for it too?
People are happy with the Axis because of the low price, but I understand that it is also a good platform for beginners, just nothing fancy.
SuperBrad has challenged me to start a thread asking: Is the Axis as good as the SKS? I am thinking of taking him up on that challenge even though
I am sure that the Axis is much more accurate than any SKS, there are still intangible benefits to consider.
Regarding feeding your new .308 (if you get one) buy a case of the cheap stuff, whatever that may be, and have fun learning before buying hunting ammo.
There are lots of similar entry rifles (new & used) that are worthy of consideration and a far better choice over a pimped up milsurp.
Also, you need to take up handloading. Surplus ammo does go bang is not always the most accurate.
I just picked up a Rem 783 in .308 at Canadian Tire because I was curious after reading up on it how good it's made.
$469 plus taxes and then you get $40 rebate afterwards. Well under $500 including the rebate.
Just stripped it down and had a good look at it. Adjusted the trigger down to 2.5 lbs. and it is a good crisp pull. Just closes on the GO headspace gauge. Free floated barrel with a better overall metal finish than the SPS. It's the FDE stock which I prefer over plain black. Bolt is very smooth and removing the firing pin assembly is easy. Magazine is well made and goes in and out nicely. Comes with Weaver type bases, aluminum Weaver type rings and what appears to be a Bushnell bottom end scope. I loctited all the screws and have it ready to shoot. The scope appears OK, but I'll change it out if and when it goes hunting to my old Leupold.
For fit and finish it's a win for a budget gun. Haven't had a chance to fire it yet, but I expect it will shoot MOA or better with my handloads. Will report later this week.
On another note, the mag will take and hold 5 - 7.62x39 cartridges. The bolt stripped and extracted them once I pushed the smaller rim inside the bolt and then ejected them. Looks like a candidate for a quick barrel change and the lowly 7.62x39.
$469 plus taxes and then you get $40 rebate afterwards. Well under $500 including the rebate.
Just stripped it down and had a good look at it. Adjusted the trigger down to 2.5 lbs. and it is a good crisp pull. Just closes on the GO headspace gauge. Free floated barrel with a better overall metal finish than the SPS. It's the FDE stock which I prefer over plain black. Bolt is very smooth and removing the firing pin assembly is easy. Magazine is well made and goes in and out nicely. Comes with Weaver type bases, aluminum Weaver type rings and what appears to be a Bushnell bottom end scope. I loctited all the screws and have it ready to shoot. The scope appears OK, but I'll change it out if and when it goes hunting to my old Leupold.
For fit and finish it's a win for a budget gun. Haven't had a chance to fire it yet, but I expect it will shoot MOA or better with my handloads. Will report later this week.
On another note, the mag will take and hold 5 - 7.62x39 cartridges. The bolt stripped and extracted them once I pushed the smaller rim inside the bolt and then ejected them. Looks like a candidate for a quick barrel change and the lowly 7.62x39.
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You are now looking at two different "classes" of rifles and trying compare one to the other in a potential "hunting" environment.
Your milsurp's were "primarily designed" for killing people at closer range who are shooting back at you - they just need to get a lot of rounds off fast - accuracy is NOT the over riding factor. They need to fire after being drug through the mud, dropped, kicked, frozen and thawed etc etc - often that durability comes at a "cost" which is "extra weight" - in military use they would have perhaps 30 round mags and you would "just keep popping off" until either you neutralized the threat or the threat killed you. That was the thinking that went into the design. The typical ammunition for these, while designed to kill, was not to cause great wound channels and gigantic exit holes - in fact, simply wounding one of the bad guys meant that "other bad guys" would be taken out of the game in order to assist the injured guy.
A hunting rifle is "primarily designed" to get a bullet accurately through the vitals of a game animal (call it an 8" target) at minimally 300 yards. You generally only get 1 shot - you don't have the benefit of "spraying a bunch of rounds in the general direction" - if you drag it through the mud, drop it or kick it, it will probably need some down time to get it in working order again. The ammunition designed for "hunting calibers" is designed kill quickly and humanely with maximum expansion - you don't want to simply "wound" - not that long ago it was "illegal" in most provinces to hunt anything with a FMJ round and even if it was permitted for varmints, most hunters considered it a "totally unethical round" (probably because they had been shooting FMJ's at Germans not too many years before).
So it really is difficult to try and compare a milsurp to a hunting rifle - they both go "bang" but the differences diverge greatly beyond that.
Your milsurp's were "primarily designed" for killing people at closer range who are shooting back at you - they just need to get a lot of rounds off fast - accuracy is NOT the over riding factor. They need to fire after being drug through the mud, dropped, kicked, frozen and thawed etc etc - often that durability comes at a "cost" which is "extra weight" - in military use they would have perhaps 30 round mags and you would "just keep popping off" until either you neutralized the threat or the threat killed you. That was the thinking that went into the design. The typical ammunition for these, while designed to kill, was not to cause great wound channels and gigantic exit holes - in fact, simply wounding one of the bad guys meant that "other bad guys" would be taken out of the game in order to assist the injured guy.
A hunting rifle is "primarily designed" to get a bullet accurately through the vitals of a game animal (call it an 8" target) at minimally 300 yards. You generally only get 1 shot - you don't have the benefit of "spraying a bunch of rounds in the general direction" - if you drag it through the mud, drop it or kick it, it will probably need some down time to get it in working order again. The ammunition designed for "hunting calibers" is designed kill quickly and humanely with maximum expansion - you don't want to simply "wound" - not that long ago it was "illegal" in most provinces to hunt anything with a FMJ round and even if it was permitted for varmints, most hunters considered it a "totally unethical round" (probably because they had been shooting FMJ's at Germans not too many years before).
So it really is difficult to try and compare a milsurp to a hunting rifle - they both go "bang" but the differences diverge greatly beyond that.
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
If you're really on a budget, a stock Mosin can serve well as a hunting rifle. I don't understand the fascination some have with pimping them out. They're mediocre rifles at best, the only thing they have going for them is the price. If you're looking for a hunting rifle, keep your eyes open for a used Stevens 200 or savage model 10/11/110/etc. They're much better rifles than the Axis and can be had for $400-$500 on the used market.
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
Not every gun is ideal for everything.
Buy an SKS for blasting at the range and a Savage Axis or equivalent entry level hunting rifle in 308 for hunting. Youll be much happier in the end.
Buy an SKS for blasting at the range and a Savage Axis or equivalent entry level hunting rifle in 308 for hunting. Youll be much happier in the end.
I hunt deer every year with an sks. I've heard/taken a lot of flak for it, but every single year, i put meat on the table. Can't argue with results!
A few caveats: Here on vancouver island, the deer are small, and the shots are rarely over 75 yards in the areas that i hunt. I practice year round with surplus ammo, and am very familiar with my particular gun. Familiarity with your rifle is key. Get to know your rifle! Find out what it can or cannot do.
Something most hunters forget to keep in mind is that for many decades, prior to about 1950 ish, scopes were unheard of and animals were thumped behind a set of irons. I would wager that the majority of all the deer ever harvested have been with irons, and at least in canada, with a *gasp* SURPLUS enfield. The sks however, can be a fantastic brush hunting gun. Same with the mosin.
With the sks, i'm never afraid to scratch the stock, it's dead-nuts reliable, semi auto for the quick follow up shot when necessary, and the short length makes it quite handy.
EDIT: Not sure this needs to be said, but obviously always use quality hunting ammo. Hunting with fmj is really stupid and highly unethical, not to mention probably illegal.
A few caveats: Here on vancouver island, the deer are small, and the shots are rarely over 75 yards in the areas that i hunt. I practice year round with surplus ammo, and am very familiar with my particular gun. Familiarity with your rifle is key. Get to know your rifle! Find out what it can or cannot do.
Something most hunters forget to keep in mind is that for many decades, prior to about 1950 ish, scopes were unheard of and animals were thumped behind a set of irons. I would wager that the majority of all the deer ever harvested have been with irons, and at least in canada, with a *gasp* SURPLUS enfield. The sks however, can be a fantastic brush hunting gun. Same with the mosin.
With the sks, i'm never afraid to scratch the stock, it's dead-nuts reliable, semi auto for the quick follow up shot when necessary, and the short length makes it quite handy.
EDIT: Not sure this needs to be said, but obviously always use quality hunting ammo. Hunting with fmj is really stupid and highly unethical, not to mention probably illegal.
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Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
I must be the only guy to have bad luck with Mosins and SKSs. First Mosin i ever bought won't chamber or eject rounds. Returned it and got my SKS. Tried to use it for hunting spring bear. Bought some Federal Fusion ammo and the gun won't feed it. The soft point would nose dive and jam on the ramp. It fed FMJ fine. So I gave up on using the SKS as a hunting gun.
