7.62x54R for hunting
- Thread starter Rifter
- Start date
), "I'm not using that commi crap!"
As far a commie crap goes I like the MFS 203 grain soft points. Recently picked up a few boxes of privi for the brass. Not sure about the 7.62x54 but their 7.62x39 soft points have a very short oal.
Have not yet had a chance to shoot it because I am doing things to my mosin that would make the red rifle's forum organize a lynch mob for me at the moment.
Have not yet had a chance to shoot it because I am doing things to my mosin that would make the red rifle's forum organize a lynch mob for me at the moment.
Not sure if you are aware of one fact regarding most milsurp rifles is to use a 6 O'clock hold, not a traditional center hold. This website has a lot to know about the cartridge and I have used it to improve my performance.
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7.62x54R.html
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7.62x54R.html
TheCoachZed
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
A Mosin Nagant is not a cheap hunting rifle unless it's given to you, and probably not even then.
Expensive to scope properly, expensive to find ammo (certainly around here, at least). Reloading reduces that cost, but you can reload just as cheaply, or more so, for other calibres.
You ought to be able to find a Lee Enfield on the EE cheaper than that Mosin, and you might be surprised what else is available in that price range too.
Expensive to scope properly, expensive to find ammo (certainly around here, at least). Reloading reduces that cost, but you can reload just as cheaply, or more so, for other calibres.
You ought to be able to find a Lee Enfield on the EE cheaper than that Mosin, and you might be surprised what else is available in that price range too.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
It seems to me that the M-38 carbine I had would shoot to POA at 100, and with milsurp ammo would hold close to MOA for 3. I never got it to shoot particularly well with my handloads, which was a matter of some consternation for me. I doubt there is any practical velocity difference between the 7.62X54R and the .30/06 in any given bullet weight, thus the Russian round is suitable for all North American game, and would meet the minimum legal requirement for Yukon Bison, when loaded with a heavy bullet. Moose, elk, and bear are all well within the cartridge's capability, out to the maximum range that you can ensure a solid hit.
To support my claim that the 7.62X54R more closely matches the capacity of the .30/06 than it does the .308, check out the loading manuals. When the 7.62X54R is loaded with a 190 gr bullet, the Hornady manual suggests 2500 fps can be attained with 49.7 grs of 760. The .30/06 produces 2500 fps with the same bullet and 48.9 grs of 760, a full grain less than the 7.62X54R load, suggesting that the Hornady engineers anyway, are of the opinion that the 7.62X54R actually has a bit more capacity than the .30/06. If I have any 7.62X54R brass laying around, and I probably do somewhere, I'd fill both it and the .30/06 with fine grain ball powder and weigh each to see which holds more, but I can't be bothered, when the evidence is right there in the manuals.
I had a bigger problem with the rifle than I did the cartridge. At first glance that Mosin Nagant M-38 carbine was attractive in its own way, but it wasn't long before I began to wonder what the Russians, or in this case the Czechs, had against their own troops; the recoil with that wicked steel butt plate was that objectionable. An after market stock fitted with a decent recoil pad would quell this criticism; there is no reason for the recoil from a .30 caliber cartridge to feel that nasty, pass the .30-378 Weatherby please. The trigger is about as far removed from the definition of what a good trigger should be, as to scarcely qualify for being called one. If I had a M-38 today I'd install a Huber Concepts trigger in hopes that it would help. The split bridge makes conventional scope mounting inconvenient, although a scout scope can work.
I finally decided that if I was going to get any satisfaction from rifle shooting that thing had to go, so I got a sporterized M-17 Enfield, which happened to be manufactured by Remington, in .30/06, which was pleasant to shoot, had a good trigger, was easy to mount a scope to, and responded positively to my efforts at the loading bench. As for accuracy, this was the rifle that began my experiments with long range shooting. Despite the inexpensive 3-9X40 hunting scope, 12" steel plates at a half mile weren't safe from any slippery bullet I loaded, despite requiring an aiming target set high above my impact targets.
There's more you can do with a Mosin Nagant rifle today, because there are more aftermarket accessories available for it now, than there was 25 years ago. There is a better selection of .310" bullets now, and although I'm sure someone will point out that .308s should shoot alright in the .310 bore, that is the only reasonable explanation as to why surplus ammo would shoot well, but my handloads sucked.
I would urge you to try cast bullet shooting. Although I didn't have the M-38 long enough to get around to it, I've had many hours of enjoyment from the inexpensive shooting that can be done with cast in my .30/06s, as well as my over .30 rifles. The only additional tool you need is a neck expansion die, sometimes called an M die, to put a slight bell on the case mouth so the soft lead bullets don't shave as you seat them. A pound of fast burning powder charges about 350 cases, maybe more, depending on the powder you choose.
To support my claim that the 7.62X54R more closely matches the capacity of the .30/06 than it does the .308, check out the loading manuals. When the 7.62X54R is loaded with a 190 gr bullet, the Hornady manual suggests 2500 fps can be attained with 49.7 grs of 760. The .30/06 produces 2500 fps with the same bullet and 48.9 grs of 760, a full grain less than the 7.62X54R load, suggesting that the Hornady engineers anyway, are of the opinion that the 7.62X54R actually has a bit more capacity than the .30/06. If I have any 7.62X54R brass laying around, and I probably do somewhere, I'd fill both it and the .30/06 with fine grain ball powder and weigh each to see which holds more, but I can't be bothered, when the evidence is right there in the manuals.
I had a bigger problem with the rifle than I did the cartridge. At first glance that Mosin Nagant M-38 carbine was attractive in its own way, but it wasn't long before I began to wonder what the Russians, or in this case the Czechs, had against their own troops; the recoil with that wicked steel butt plate was that objectionable. An after market stock fitted with a decent recoil pad would quell this criticism; there is no reason for the recoil from a .30 caliber cartridge to feel that nasty, pass the .30-378 Weatherby please. The trigger is about as far removed from the definition of what a good trigger should be, as to scarcely qualify for being called one. If I had a M-38 today I'd install a Huber Concepts trigger in hopes that it would help. The split bridge makes conventional scope mounting inconvenient, although a scout scope can work.
I finally decided that if I was going to get any satisfaction from rifle shooting that thing had to go, so I got a sporterized M-17 Enfield, which happened to be manufactured by Remington, in .30/06, which was pleasant to shoot, had a good trigger, was easy to mount a scope to, and responded positively to my efforts at the loading bench. As for accuracy, this was the rifle that began my experiments with long range shooting. Despite the inexpensive 3-9X40 hunting scope, 12" steel plates at a half mile weren't safe from any slippery bullet I loaded, despite requiring an aiming target set high above my impact targets.
There's more you can do with a Mosin Nagant rifle today, because there are more aftermarket accessories available for it now, than there was 25 years ago. There is a better selection of .310" bullets now, and although I'm sure someone will point out that .308s should shoot alright in the .310 bore, that is the only reasonable explanation as to why surplus ammo would shoot well, but my handloads sucked.
I would urge you to try cast bullet shooting. Although I didn't have the M-38 long enough to get around to it, I've had many hours of enjoyment from the inexpensive shooting that can be done with cast in my .30/06s, as well as my over .30 rifles. The only additional tool you need is a neck expansion die, sometimes called an M die, to put a slight bell on the case mouth so the soft lead bullets don't shave as you seat them. A pound of fast burning powder charges about 350 cases, maybe more, depending on the powder you choose.
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^Boomer put it well^ ... I don't like milsurps for hunting. Generally they're outdated, long, heavy, hard to scope, handle poorly and usually difficult/expensive to find ammo for. After you spend all that time getting yours up to speed for hunting, you could be well on the way to buying a modern sporting rifle.
A Ruger RAR or Marlin X7 on the EE can be had for well under $400 and be a far better choice without all the hassle. You ARE going to want to upgrade from the russian leftover someday and go with a current rifle, so might as well do it right off the bat.
A Ruger RAR or Marlin X7 on the EE can be had for well under $400 and be a far better choice without all the hassle. You ARE going to want to upgrade from the russian leftover someday and go with a current rifle, so might as well do it right off the bat.
Good points for the majority of answers, thanks all.
Boomer, is an M-38 / M-44 really comparable recoil wise to a 30/378? I've never really shot any big bore / WSM / magnum type calibers, my 375 Weatherby non-withstanding.
I have hammered out 100-120 rds through an M44 back-to-back to prove it could be done ( don't have an exact count as we had the M-39 going so my daughter could get some trigger time in too) without posting the usual ' It kicks so much!' we see often on here.
I kind of got an inkling of an M-44's true recoil when the 375 Weatherby seemed rather sedate, lol. Thought the tamer recoil could be attributed to the 375's weight ( No. 1-T).
But OP, the Mosin is good to go on most game I'd think. Although as someone else posted, a sporter 303 br would likely do the same job on most game. With an easier supply and greater choice of loads.
A pic for all; it's been up a time or two, but no-one wants to see my Hippy looking mug.
Boomer, is an M-38 / M-44 really comparable recoil wise to a 30/378? I've never really shot any big bore / WSM / magnum type calibers, my 375 Weatherby non-withstanding.
I have hammered out 100-120 rds through an M44 back-to-back to prove it could be done ( don't have an exact count as we had the M-39 going so my daughter could get some trigger time in too) without posting the usual ' It kicks so much!' we see often on here.
I kind of got an inkling of an M-44's true recoil when the 375 Weatherby seemed rather sedate, lol. Thought the tamer recoil could be attributed to the 375's weight ( No. 1-T).
But OP, the Mosin is good to go on most game I'd think. Although as someone else posted, a sporter 303 br would likely do the same job on most game. With an easier supply and greater choice of loads.
A pic for all; it's been up a time or two, but no-one wants to see my Hippy looking mug.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Good points for the majority of answers, thanks all.
Boomer, is an M-38 / M-44 really comparable recoil wise to a 30/378? I've never really shot any big bore / WSM / magnum type calibers, my 375 Weatherby non-withstanding.
I have hammered out 100-120 rds through an M44 back-to-back to prove it could be done ( don't have an exact count as we had the M-39 going so my daughter could get some trigger time in too) without posting the usual ' It kicks so much!' we see often on here.
I kind of got an inkling of an M-44's true recoil when the 375 Weatherby seemed rather sedate, lol. Thought the tamer recoil could be attributed to the 375's weight ( No. 1-T).
But OP, the Mosin is good to go on most game I'd think. Although as someone else posted, a sporter 303 br would likely do the same job on most game. With an easier supply and greater choice of loads.
A pic for all; it's been up a time or two, but no-one wants to see my Hippy looking mug.
No, its worse! I nearly didn't delve into the medium and big bore cartridges, as the Mosin experience had me convinced they were beyond me. Its not that the ft-lbs of recoil is so great, it was that nasty butt plate when shooting in T-shirt weather that did me in. I'd sooner shoot 10 rounds of hot loaded .416 Rigby prone, (102 grs of 4350 under a 350 was my load) than shoot 5 rounds from a Mosin off hand.
Well, I'm going to have to delve into the Big bore world some more I think. I figure I'm somewhat fixed as far as fearing recoil, lol.
I always shoot offhand or supported at best, you can roll with it then. I was shooting the 375 the other day and thinking " It doesn't kick" then I realized that it would make my teeth click together if I was controlling my breathing through my mouth.
I don't notice or fear the shoulder punch, the only effect is my jaw hinging shut hard enough to make my teeth click.
OP, beg pardon on deviating from the original topic.
I always shoot offhand or supported at best, you can roll with it then. I was shooting the 375 the other day and thinking " It doesn't kick" then I realized that it would make my teeth click together if I was controlling my breathing through my mouth.
I don't notice or fear the shoulder punch, the only effect is my jaw hinging shut hard enough to make my teeth click.
OP, beg pardon on deviating from the original topic.
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- Location
- 43.40340,-80.35800
If you watch 'Life Below Zero' there's an episode where Chip & Agnes are hunting caribou, and that's what she's using.
Good hunting!
Good hunting!
- Location
- Chilliwack BC
I dremeled out 2 holes in the top of the dovetail for the vertical retaining screws to grab into, so hopefully it stays put.
Also just thought I would add, im only into the rifle for $535 right now total, this includes the scope the mount, reproduction mosin tool kit, and a 400 round box of surplus ammo to learn how to shoot it. I don't think I could have got a modern Rifle scoped and with 400 rounds to play with for anything close to that.
And thanks to the fellow CGN member who gave me a smoking deal on the scope!
I hope to some day end up with a Remington or a savage, probably in .308 for hunting, but im sure the mosin will get the job done for a few years till I can afford to upgrade. Or I eventually inherit my dads 30-30 from my uncle.
And thanks to the fellow CGN member who gave me a smoking deal on the scope!
I hope to some day end up with a Remington or a savage, probably in .308 for hunting, but im sure the mosin will get the job done for a few years till I can afford to upgrade. Or I eventually inherit my dads 30-30 from my uncle.
It does look amazing with the bayonet attached that's for sure.
The POA will be different with different bullets. Before changing the sights, try the heaviest bullet available. Maybe something around 200 gr would hit POA.
As for power, you have all you need for moose. Rifle is similar to a 30-06. I would load just one bullet - a 180 to 200 gr one. This heavier bullet would be less prone to blowing huge holes in little critters like deer. A 150 gr would be somewhat explosive on them.
You may need a taller front sight. If it was my rifle, I would run a file across the top of the sight to take the bluing off, then I would heat it with a torch and put a blob of solder on it. After it cools, I would trim it up with a file and then take it to the range (with the file). Hopefully it would now shoot low, and I could use the file to make it hit POA.
