7.65x53mm Mauser Hunting Rifles

conor_90

conor_90

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Curious why this caliber never seems to have taken off as a hunting round?

7x57 certainly seemed to be a popular round historically for hunting rifles under that stamp and 275 rigby. I don’t believe it was used as a military service round by many nations? Maybe the Spanish demand for it was high and that contributed to its popularity

Surplus 8x57 hunting rifles are common not to mention Swedish commercial model 96 conversions. Both calibers are still available commercially

With modern powders in a 98 action I’d imagine this caliber would be so similar to a 308 or 30-06 so as to be identical.

I imagine there were some sporters made from South American 98’s and older euro guns originally used as military.

The bore size seems to have been relegated to military rounds? 303 British, Japanese 7.7x58 one of the many that didn’t make it to the modern era.

What happened to the sporterized rifles? All used in South America or rusted to death? I know Argentine Mausers of some vintages are considered some of the best model 98’s ever made, is it simply a case of the rifles that hit North American shores being converted into sporters?
 
I'd guess that surplus rifles were few in numbers offered here as well as hunting ammo was hard to find were the two biggest reasons.
 
From what I've seen possibly commercially sporterized 1891 rifles are somwhat common in the USA. Some were even reamed to a 30-06 chamber, I saw a beautiful DWM 1909 carbine so treated at a gunshop in Calgary.

Many of the 1909 rifles (Argentina and Peru) were used for their actions. One can still go to the Martini and Hagn website and see 1909 actions for sale as a custom build.

Of course many of the carbines and short rifles were used to the point of being a tomato stake in backwoods South America and many of the long rifles ended up as movie props.

The Winchester Models 54 and 70 were offered in 7.65mm.

Norma does make ammo as does Prvi.
 
I have two of the German made 1909 Argentines - a cavalry carbine and the long rifle - both seem to be "all matching", for what that is worth. Bores appear to be excellent. I was able to find dies on CGN, brass at TradeEx and of course it uses same size and weight bullets as 303 British. So, 150 grain, 174 grain and 215 grain jacketed hunting bullets still available, although with some effort to find. Once into it, is actually hard to understand why USA / NATO and others spent so much time and money to "invent" the 7.62 NATO cartridge, when Paul Mauser had already done so in the late 1800's?

I had read that the surplus 1909's that came to USA were particularly desired for "home done" or "small scale commercial" conversions to hunting rifles - one of the few 98 Mausers that were built with a hinged floor plate from Mauser factory - so what many folk find the "hard thing to do" was already done on it. No doubt many simply had the barrel unscrewed and discarded, drilled and tapped for scope bases, low swing safety installed, and a "real" 30 caliber barrel screwed on, then set into a Herters or Bishop type "sporter" stock.
 
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^^^^ Same here. Found dies and brass on the board. Also found approx 300 rounds of military ammo on here as well. Anyone know if, in general, this was corrosive?

...and I agree, this calibre was basically 7.62x51 in performance.
 
European cartridges were never popular in North America until recently, and likewise for American cartridges in Europe. The same aspect would apply for different regions of Canada, 30-30, 308 Win.'s in the east, the 270 and magnum cartridges in the west. Also, the Imperial system was utilized in North America and the Metric conversion was unknown, pun intended, foreign.
 
track said:
European cartridges were never popular in North America until recently, and likewise for American cartridges in Europe. The same aspect would apply for different regions of Canada, 30-30, 308 Win.'s in the east, the 270 and magnum cartridges in the west. Also, the Imperial system was utilized in North America and the Metric conversion was unknown, pun intended, foreign.
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30'06 hunting rifles have been made in Europe since at least the 1920's, lots of American cartridges have been used there for 100 years, HVA made single shot rifles in the 20's in 25-20, 32-20, 30-30, and 45-70.
 
Hitzy said:
30'06 hunting rifles have been made in Europe since at least the 1920's, lots of American cartridges have been used there for 100 years, HVA made single shot rifles in the 20's in 25-20, 32-20, 30-30, and 45-70.
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Go ahead and knit-pic on a trifle of cartridges, the BIG picture is that Americans utilized their own and Europeans theirs.............."PANORAMIC VIEW - BIG PICTURE" Metric cartridges were not common and shied/avoided. Personally, I never saw a 6.5x55 cartridge/rifle until 1985, I and most other people didn't care about metric, it was the imperial cartridges that we knew and concentrated on, in my little world anyway.
 
conor_90 said:
Curious why this caliber never seems to have taken off as a hunting round?

7x57 certainly seemed to be a popular round historically for hunting rifles under that stamp and 275 rigby. I don’t believe it was used as a military service round by many nations? Maybe the Spanish demand for it was high and that contributed to its popularity

Surplus 8x57 hunting rifles are common not to mention Swedish commercial model 96 conversions. Both calibers are still available commercially

With modern powders in a 98 action I’d imagine this caliber would be so similar to a 308 or 30-06 so as to be identical.

I imagine there were some sporters made from South American 98’s and older euro guns originally used as military.

The bore size seems to have been relegated to military rounds? 303 British, Japanese 7.7x58 one of the many that didn’t make it to the modern era.

What happened to the sporterized rifles? All used in South America or rusted to death? I know Argentine Mausers of some vintages are considered some of the best model 98’s ever made, is it simply a case of the rifles that hit North American shores being converted into sporters?
Click to expand...

At one time, the 7×57mm Mauser cartridge saw widespread military use. It was used by:

Bolivia
Brazil
Chile
China
Costa Rica
Cuba
El Salvador
Honduras
Iran
Mexico
Orange Free State
Paraguay
First Philippine Republic
Kingdom of Serbia
Spain
South African Republic
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Venezuela

A friend had one of those 7.65 Argentine 1891 models in a basic "sporterized" condition. A mutual friend who had worked for Lever Arms used to sell a few guns around where we lived after visiting Lever's store on occasion. I remember handling the rifle before he sold it. Nice smooth action.

Sadly, the friend who bought it was a depressive and ended his life with it, so those guns are tainted in my mind.
 
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It’s practically the same as the more common 303, and the guns that use it are older. The caliber did not benefit from two world war’s worth of surplus actions from a major empire dumped on the market that would have made it a household name.
 
Potashminer said:
I have two of the German made 1909 Argentines - a cavalry carbine and the long rifle - both seem to be "all matching", for what that is worth. Bores appear to be excellent. I was able to find dies on CGN, brass at TradeEx and of course it uses same size and weight bullets as 303 British. So, 150 grain, 174 grain and 215 grain jacketed hunting bullets still available, although with some effort to find. Once into it, is actually hard to understand why USA / NATO and others spent so much time and money to "invent" the 7.62 NATO cartridge, when Paul Mauser had already done so in the late 1800's?

I had read that the surplus 1909's that came to USA were particularly desired for "home done" or "small scale" conversions to hunting rifles - one of the few 98 Mausers that were built with a hinged floor plate from Mauser factory - so what many folk find the "hard thing to do" was already done on it. No doubt many simply had the barrel unscrewed and discarded, drilled and tapped for scope bases, low swing safety installed, and a "real" 30 caliber barrel screwed on, then set into a Herters or Bishop type "sporter" stock.
Click to expand...

Yup. I knew an American immigrant whose California father in law gave him a sweet 30-06 thumbhole stock sporter he'd made from a 1909 Argentine Mauser.
 
track said:
Go ahead and knit-pic on a trifle of cartridges, the BIG picture is that Americans utilized their own and Europeans theirs.............."PANORAMIC VIEW - BIG PICTURE" Metric cartridges were not common and shied/avoided. Personally, I never saw a 6.5x55 cartridge/rifle until 1985, I and most other people didn't care about metric, it was the imperial cartridges that we knew and concentrated on, in my little world anyway.
Click to expand...

not exactly: i ve seen in europe more imperial cartridges than metric in north america ... european hunters are using a lot 30-06, 308 and 270 as well as the 7mm or the 300 win mag and for a very long time now.

there is no patriot vision in hunting world. people are using what is working or what they re allowed to use. i dreamed of 30-06 for hunting since a kid and i was only authorized to use it at the range with 200 rounds max at home ... the first caliber i bought when we arrived in canada was this specific caliber. but i took more game with my old 300 savage go figure lol ...
 
Sirplus: that’s a good point. But in a 98 action it is surely capable of being loaded as if it were a 308.

Regardless of popularity in North America you would think that you would see a few commercial rifles made in this caliber as per other military calibers like the 30-06, 6.5ms, 303 etc. etc etc.

I guess it’s a matter of the nations that selected it, historical circumstance may be the reason we have guys fetishizing the 7x57 and euro companies still producing 8x57s
 
conor_90 said:
Sirplus: that’s a good point. But in a 98 action it is surely capable of being loaded as if it were a 308.

Regardless of popularity in North America you would think that you would see a few commercial rifles made in this caliber as per other military calibers like the 30-06, 6.5ms, 303 etc. etc etc.

I guess it’s a matter of the nations that selected it, historical circumstance may be the reason we have guys fetishizing the 7x57 and euro companies still producing 8x57s
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Well, the 7x57 found favour in Britain and Africa as the 275 Rigby and Jack O'Connor popularized it in the United States through him and his wife's use of the calibre.

The 7×57mm was the favoured cartridge of Eleanor O'Connor, wife of famous hunter and author Jack O'Connor. Eleanor accompanied her husband on multiple hunting expeditions all over the world, killing small and large game with the 7×57mm. Jack O'Connor also made extensive use of the round and remarked that "I think I have seen more game killed with fewer shots from this modest little cartridge than with any other."
 
:dancingbanana: In an alternate universe Eleanor shot her sheep and grizz with a 7.65x53 Mauser and Whynot? shoots a 10.75 instead of a 9.3...


I wonder if there are any commercial prewar sporters in this caliber that had a lifetime of safaris in the Belgian Congo or plains game hunting on the Pampas
 
A lot of 7.65 x 53's came in '91's... Water's was of the opinion that it was the equal of (or better) 308.
Look up case head separation in 1891's... little spooky. Not something that is gonna want you to surpass 308 numbers.
1891's are marvelous lil guns...but they ain't a 98 by a darn sight.
IIRC... a 7.65 will typically digest .312 bullets with aplomb
 
I have no experience with the 1891 Mauser rifless - just the two 1909 Argentine which are clearly 98 versions. As per Wikipedia - so pre-WWI, the 7.65 was throwing 154 grain spitzer bullets about 2,723 fps - that is virtually identical to the 30-06 military loads of that time, which were used by White, Roosevelt and a few others to show how "great" the 30-06 was on the hunting fields. As previously mentioned, hard to imagine why the dollars and time were spent to invent the 7.62x51 NATO cartridge. Marketing, national pride, ignorance - probably equal portions of each went into it...
 
conor_90 said:
:dancingbanana: In an alternate universe Eleanor shot her sheep and grizz with a 7.65x53 Mauser and Whynot? shoots a 10.75 instead of a 9.3...


I wonder if there are any commercial prewar sporters in this caliber that had a lifetime of safaris in the Belgian Congo or plains game hunting on the Pampas
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10.75x68 was not really a caliber you wanted to use in the old days with the 347 grains. really anemic and not a strong bullet construction. we had one in the camp that was locked to make sure nobody was using it...
 
I bet 10.75x57 would have been a good moose round though.

Was this in CAR? Not a French gun was it? I remember you saying something about a MAS in a weird caliber irrc?

308 redesign must come down to loaded cartridge oal length? The cartridge design seems downright modern it’s true. Do the Argy 98’s have a mag box that will fit an 06 length cartridge without modification?

I liked hunting with 8x57 196 grainers, underrated deer round imo. Somewhere between the 308 180 and the 220 30-06

Edit: almost 5mm difference in oal between the 308 and 7.65 cartridges
 
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