7.65x53mm Mauser Hunting Rifles

conor_90 said:
I bet 10.75x57 would have been a good moose round though.

Was this in CAR? Not a French gun was it? I remember you saying something about a MAS in a weird caliber irrc?

308 redesign must come down to loaded cartridge oal length? The cartridge design seems downright modern it’s true. Do the Argy 98’s have a mag box that will fit an 06 length cartridge without modification?

I liked hunting with 8x57 196 grainers, underrated deer round imo. Somewhere between the 308 180 and the 220 30-06

Edit: almost 5mm difference in oal between the two cartridges
Click to expand...

Just flipped open floor plate on both the 1909 Argentine long rifle and the cavalry carbine - sort of 3.3" measured there. Did not disassemble to measure the inside length top of mag box... So all loads for 30-06 C.O.L. from Hornady 9th would fit.
 
I think the 7.65 has a slight taper on the neck... not the best for gripping bullets. It was one of the original CF rounds behind the 8mm Lebel IIRC.
308 is likely a better choice in the big picture
 
No doubt, but the old chestnut that the 30-06 already existed as the 8x57 might be even truer of the 7.65

It’s history makes me even more curious about the seeming lack of sporting rifles in the caliber. I would love to know the history of the winchesters in the caliber and their use.
 
Is getting more difficult to find good information about that old cartridge. Hornady 9th and Wikipedia both showing the necks as straight for 7.65x53 - 8.78mm (.346") as outside diameter at mouth and at the shoulder junction. In Hornady manual, shows the 303 British having .002" smaller mouth than at the shoulder junction.
 
Potashminer said:
I have no experience with the 1891 Mauser rifless - just the two 1909 Argentine which are clearly 98 versions. As per Wikipedia - so pre-WWI, the 7.65 was throwing 154 grain spitzer bullets about 2,723 fps - that is virtually identical to the 30-06 military loads of that time, which were used by White, Roosevelt and a few others to show how "great" the 30-06 was on the hunting fields. As previously mentioned, hard to imagine why the dollars and time were spent to invent the 7.62x51 NATO cartridge. Marketing, national pride, ignorance - probably equal portions of each went into it...
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This. ^^^ Folks liking the 1909 Argentine have a great basis for a nice sporting rifle using the 7.65x53, but rifle cranks on our side of the world tended to go the rebarrel & chamber route for these actions as they be so well made. Nothing wrong with the 7.65 for hunting & plinking.
 
Along a similar line of thinking, I built a pair of 7.62X57 rifles (and another member has a third)... the concept of the 8X57 case in a .30 cal, seemed to make some good sense, at least at the time... since that time they have proven to be excellent, accurate, comfortable rifles, with just the right case capacity and bullet selection for a general purpose, medium game carry. Load development progressed through to yesterday, and resulted in the conclusion that RL-17 and 165 NBT's are our friends.

The middle Laminate rifle and upper Walnut rifle in the pics below.
 
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conor_90 said:
I bet 10.75x57 would have been a good moose round though.

Was this in CAR? Not a French gun was it? I remember you saying something about a MAS in a weird caliber irrc?

308 redesign must come down to loaded cartridge oal length? The cartridge design seems downright modern it’s true. Do the Argy 98’s have a mag box that will fit an 06 length cartridge without modification?

I liked hunting with 8x57 196 grainers, underrated deer round imo. Somewhere between the 308 180 and the 220 30-06

Edit: almost 5mm difference in oal between the 308 and 7.65 cartridges
Click to expand...

it was a mas36 good memory ... and in CAR.
 
conor_90 said:
:dancingbanana: Maybe this gun had more problems than the chambering
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chambering with actual bullet bullet is great a woodleigh fmj or rn will be great the ones we had was not that at all ... for the gun on his own i used it in the frf1 and frf2 versions with not a problem. i did not like it but was doing the job perfectly ... but we used mark v in 460 for back up so ...
 
Looking at sine commercial rifles online built in MAS with a trigger safety and strange scope mount. Fournier is the name of the manufacturer, is this the type you used?
 
It's even less desirable than than the Swiss 7.5X55 (designed in 1889) and the French 7.5X54 (designed in 1929) and those two are for practical purposes identical to the 7.62X51 from 1954 (which lead to the 308 Win).

Foreign idea using Metric System - wierd, US idea using Imperial - brilliant.
 
I'm not so sure that metric versus imperial really explains the phenomenon - so Paul Mauser had invented the 7.65x53 by about 1889, in response to the "Powder B" used in the 8mm Lebel in 1886. What need or gap was being filled by the Swiss 7.5x55 or the French 7.5x54? With due respect to Hoytcanon, is about the same as sliding something in between a 308 Win and a 30-06 - it is a "cool" invention, but hard to really nail down the "need" that was filled - unless there was a reason to perfectly fit a rifle with a 3.0" or 3.1" magazine without "wasting space". I suppose that is what "gun folk" might be about - someone has a great sig line - along the lines of "everyone would be using 200 Stevens in 30-06" if it was only about "practical"... I suspect militaries were actually following along with that...
 
Potashminer said:
I'm not so sure that metric versus imperial really explains the phenomenon - so Paul Mauser had invented the 7.65x53 by about 1889, in response to the "Powder B" used in the 8mm Lebel in 1886. What need or gap was being filled by the Swiss 7.5x55 or the French 7.5x54? With due respect to Hoytcanon, is about the same as sliding something in between a 308 Win and a 30-06 - it is a "cool" invention, but hard to really nail down the "need" that was filled - unless there was a reason to perfectly fit a rifle with a 3.0" or 3.1" magazine without "wasting space". I suppose that is what "gun folk" might be about - someone has a great sig line - along the lines of "everyone would be using 200 Stevens in 30-06" if it was only about "practical"... I suspect militaries were actually following along with that...
Click to expand...

That is precisely the point... gun folk are a strange species and MOST of the time the oddballs are exactly that, oddballs... they made sense to whoever did them, but those coming after are baffled... it is what it is, and all fun and games until they are pointed at men in bloody fields... which is where many were intended to be used.

P.S - I may be completely out of context on everything above, to be honest, I did not read the thread... I have the attention span of a "gnat..." it doesn't get better as you get older either.
 
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C&R is Curios and Relics.

CAR could be:

AcronymDefinition
CARCarriage
CARCustomer Account Representative
CARCenter for Automotive Research
CARCaribbean
CARClimate Action Reserve (Los Angeles, CA)
CARCentral African Republic
CARCalifornia Association of Realtors
CARComputer Assisted Reporting
CARChildren at Risk
CARCarre (French: Square; Canada Post street designation)
CARCollect And Return
CARChimeric Antigen Receptor (proteins)
CARCounty Carlow (Ireland)
CARComputer-Assisted Radiology
CARClub Alfa Romeo (car club)
CARCorporación Autónoma Regional de Cundinamarca (Spanish: Regional Autonomous Corporation of Cundinamarca; Cundinamarca, Colombia)
CARCapital Adequacy Ratio
CARCommunity and Alumni Relations (various locations)
CARCordillera Administrative Region (Philippines)
CARCourt Appointed Receiver
CARCommitted Access Rate
CARCenter Axis Relock (firearms)
CARControl of Asbestos Regulations (UK)
CARConflict Armament Research (identifies and tracks weapons and ammunition in contemporary armed conflicts)
CARCarian (linguistics)
CARCorrective Action Request
CARCapital Adequacy Requirement (various locations)
CARCapacity Analysis Report
CARCertificate of Alien Registration (various locations)
CARCenter for Applied Research
CARCapital-at-Risk
etc.
 
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The 7.62x57 HC has 3 mms on the 7.65, this could be the recipe for success. Someone contact Hornady

The real mind boggler is that it isn’t in a 96 action. Or that hasn’t been done before by the Swedes

:dancingbanana:


CAR= Central African Republic

Always interesting what rifles there are that were used for hunting in former colonies. I know the Aussie’s and South Africans have Lee enfield s like we do.
 
conor_90 said:
The 7.62x57 HC has 3 mms on the 7.65, this could be the recipe for success. Someone contact Hornady

The real mind boggler is that it isn’t in a 96 action. Or that hasn’t been done before by the Swedes

:dancingbanana:


CAR= Central African Republic

Always interesting what rifles there are that were used for hunting in former colonies. I know the Aussie’s and South Africans have Lee enfield s like we do.
Click to expand...

There only be 3 thou of an inch difference between the .308 & .311 bullets, not mm's.
 
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