700 rem bolt
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I don't quite follow your question...
I see bolt and sleeve... and I don't believe there is any great accuracy gain in sleeving a bolt. It is more of a "something that can be done".
How ever it is done the rear of the bolt must be centered in the bolt race. It can not be done by a drill and a nylon daul, what ever a nylon daul is.
I use Mozilla Firefox for my browser and it does it automatically.
For instance the word "dont" in your question is underlined in red indicating it is misspelled, and when I right click on the word a menu pops up with suggestions... "don't" needs the apostrophe.
Mystic Precision
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I think what he means is to put in a nylon bolt that will act as a bolt stop to keep it from bouncing around when the sear falls.
This was something I heard about but never actually saw on a rifle. Considering how thin it would have to be, I can't see it being very durable.
Nowadays, the access to oversized bolt bodies is easy. Just get one that fits your action (or make your action fit the bolt), and voila. Nice true lock up. Many come with nice fluting too for a more custom look.
I am sure there are some smiths that sleeve bolt bodies but that is more work then it is worth.
This of course assumes that all the other alignment steps has been done.
Jerry
This was something I heard about but never actually saw on a rifle. Considering how thin it would have to be, I can't see it being very durable.
Nowadays, the access to oversized bolt bodies is easy. Just get one that fits your action (or make your action fit the bolt), and voila. Nice true lock up. Many come with nice fluting too for a more custom look.
I am sure there are some smiths that sleeve bolt bodies but that is more work then it is worth.
This of course assumes that all the other alignment steps has been done.
Jerry
I get my 700s bolt bushed and it is with steel bushings, i figure if I'm gonna get a new oversized bolt from PTG with fast strike, have it fitted, lapped and squared including inside bolt, jewel trigger, etc. I may as well make sure the bolt is trued in it's raceway. What the poster is talking about, I think, is plastic bushings instead, similar to the Rem.710.
There are lots who will sleeve bolts. I'll do it if my customer wants me to... But the benefit of doing it is hard to document. Is there much to gain in accuracy? It is not going to make a 3/4 inch rifle into 1/2 inch... nor a .300 rifle into a .200 rifle.
If the action is being completely worked over it may be an extremely small benefit in a Benchrest caliber... but useless if the action isn't trued and a quality barrel fitted.
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My assumption is the poster is talking anout a nylon dowel inserted perpendicular to the bolt body, in line with the upper (left hand) locking lug. If two dowels or plugs were used, this would not be too dissimilar to my system wherein I dovetail two steel inserts into the bolt body. This would be a decent system providing one could ensure the nylon plugs would be positively retained. If I were to try anything different from my dovetailed inserts, my first choice would probably be to thread plugs (steel or brass) into the bolt body. Nylon inserts sound good but I don't think they could be tightened up enough to garantee they wouldn't move.
I think the concept of using "bumps" like this is better than a bushing which is why I do it the way I do.
I have two M70 rifles which use bumps, (via the dovetailed inserts) and one which is bushed. I like the bumps better. Regards, Bill.
PS
Please refrain from checking my spelling! Typing out a message is hard enough; I'd rather not have to spell check as well!
I think the concept of using "bumps" like this is better than a bushing which is why I do it the way I do.
I have two M70 rifles which use bumps, (via the dovetailed inserts) and one which is bushed. I like the bumps better. Regards, Bill.
PS
Please refrain from checking my spelling! Typing out a message is hard enough; I'd rather not have to spell check as well!
I like your method as well Bill... I have done sleeves and filed/polished the "off" sides so the bolt moved freely and then they 'cammed' in as you closed it. But I am switching to the dovetailed method.
Only two small spelling mistakes Bill...
some of the guys I shoot with have the bushing on the back of the bolt to keep it centered its only one inch long . that way there is no slap in the bolt when fired every thing stays straight and true the other thing I was talking about in sted of the bushing there is three pins of brass or nylon with set screws that do the same thing . My bolt faces and actions have all been trued I was just wondering about either of these other deals,do they have an advantege at the back of the bolt
Mystic Precision
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NOPE, end result is the same. I think the extra bolts look messy. Go with the oversized bolt body or shimmed bolt. Looks better and will never go out of adjustment.
Jerry
Jerry
it can be in any cal, and does it help increase accurcy ,or is it a waist of time ,if it is why over size bolts or other proceedgers listed for benchrest rifles. The biggest thing Im trying to get the most out of all my F class rifles and if there is little things like this that help is it worth the cost of it all or leave well enough alone
Well, I think if it is well done it will not harm accuracy. It is about the last thing I would worry about. Some of the more important things are:
The action face, locking lug recesses and action threads should be made true by machining to the bolt race way preferably in one setup.
The bolt lugs and face of the bolt should be made true to the bolt body by machining, not lapping.
A match grade barrel should be chambered and fitted, centered as true with the bore as you can get it, with a minimum chamber. The threads should not be overly tight while fitting the barrel. The barrel should screw on by hand before torquing it tight.
A crisp, light trigger is required.
The action should be bedded with no stress and the barrel floated.
Now if you want to have the rear of the bolt "bumped" for a tighter fit go for it. You may or may not see any difference in accuracy. I don't think you can measure it. It will not harm accuracy if the procedure is well done.
I would prefer to leave the front of the bolt free to center on the chambered round but the front end can be done as well.
Maybe Bill Leeper will add some thoughts... he is an excellent gunsmith and F class and Benchrest shooter.
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What am I missing here? I'm having a hard time picturing what the problem is. I'm not familiar with the Rem 700, but it sounds like the bolt is wobbling/moving/slapping about in the receiver when fired? That can't be right, can it?
Every 'factory' bolt action has some rearward bolt movement up and down when the firing pin is released.
The trigger sear engages the cocking sear on the firing pin when the bolt is closed. This causes upwards pressure on the bolt body. The bolt body is held in the rear bridge of the action. When the firing pin is released, the upwards pressure on the bolt is also released and the bolt body now is free. This movement up and down is usually less than 10 thousands of an inch. The theory is this movement of the bolt causes a loss of accuracy. When the bolt is "bumped" by previously described methods, the up and down movement is reduced, possibly increasing accuracy. I have measured quite a few 700's and usually the inside rear measurement is less than .7035". Most bolt bodies are not smaller than .6950".
I have measured expensive custom actions with 5 thou clearance on the bolt.
Mystic Precision
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- Location
- Summerland, BC
The idea is that the vibration is inconsistent during each firing which 'may' affect the harmonics of the barrel.
Remember that with a solid front locking bolt, what happens at the rear influences the front.
I think you got to be able to shoot in the 1's and 2's to see any benefit for or against.
Where I think most of the gains occur is maintaining that alignment of lug, receiver and chamber. When that action was trued, was it trued with the bolt in the cocked or fired position?
If the rear moves 10thou, the front must also move by some amount. This can certainly apply some force on the lugs and how they seat in the receiver. Those lugs may not be so aligned after all.
I suppose that this is what allows the lugs to jam under the force of a high pressure load giving you the hard bolt lift.
There is little doubt that the actions I have seen that used oversized bolts or customs built with similar tolerances can handle pretty toasty loads and still function easily.
Not condoning crazy high pressures but these tuned actions are better at masking pressure signs- not necessarily a good thing.
And with the trend to running really high pressures cause....well, you can (?), any thing that masks the pressure signs are 'good' things.
YMMV.
Jerry
PS All front locking solid bolts suffer from the same issue of bolt bounce. The only action that doesn't is the Savage/Stevens. The bolt head is floating and is not affected by the movement of the bolt body during firing.
One of the reasons I use these actions....
Remember that with a solid front locking bolt, what happens at the rear influences the front.
I think you got to be able to shoot in the 1's and 2's to see any benefit for or against.
Where I think most of the gains occur is maintaining that alignment of lug, receiver and chamber. When that action was trued, was it trued with the bolt in the cocked or fired position?
If the rear moves 10thou, the front must also move by some amount. This can certainly apply some force on the lugs and how they seat in the receiver. Those lugs may not be so aligned after all.
I suppose that this is what allows the lugs to jam under the force of a high pressure load giving you the hard bolt lift.
There is little doubt that the actions I have seen that used oversized bolts or customs built with similar tolerances can handle pretty toasty loads and still function easily.
Not condoning crazy high pressures but these tuned actions are better at masking pressure signs- not necessarily a good thing.
And with the trend to running really high pressures cause....well, you can (?), any thing that masks the pressure signs are 'good' things.
YMMV.
Jerry
PS All front locking solid bolts suffer from the same issue of bolt bounce. The only action that doesn't is the Savage/Stevens. The bolt head is floating and is not affected by the movement of the bolt body during firing.
One of the reasons I use these actions....
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