700P 338 LM Custom

fireforming?????

Exactly who does that anymore????? Use hornadys hydroforming dies.......A couple of whacks witha hammer and voila an ackely casing.
 
The Ackley Improved cases do in fact increase both Case and Barrel life this is due to the inherent reforming of the case shoulders .The reformed cases re direct the hot propellant gases onto the mouth of the case not the throat of the barrel . The problem with decreased Barrel life /case life comes when many shooters start exceeding the host calibers load limits usually this is a combination of poor powder selection.Fire forming brass does not cause damage to the rifle or the brass casing and IMHO is less likely to cause case damage than Hydro forming .
 
Savage said:
The Ackley Improved cases do in fact increase both Case and Barrel life this is due to the inherent reforming of the case shoulders .The reformed cases re direct the hot propellant gases onto the mouth of the case not the throat of the barrel .
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I have always thought this had some merit but I don't think it has ever been proven. It may be a very arguable theory. I seem to remember there were some very valid points made discounting it on Benchrest Central. I'll have to see if I can find more info on it.
 
Savage-----

Savage said:
The Ackley Improved cases do in fact increase both Case and Barrel life this is due to the inherent reforming of the case shoulders .The reformed cases re direct the hot propellant gases onto the mouth of the case not the throat of the barrel . The problem with decreased Barrel life /case life comes when many shooters start exceeding the host calibers load limits usually this is a combination of poor powder selection.Fire forming brass does not cause damage to the rifle or the brass casing and IMHO is less likely to cause case damage than Hydro forming .
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Fire forming does not cause damage to the rifle or brass casing???? Ok rifle, but brass??? I have fireformed with the COW method and certain makes of brass have different failure rates, but i have always had some split necks or a failure of some sort..... Ie....- Fireforming Nosler .22-250 brass - I had failures of approx 2-20 casings..... Winchester - 1-10... Thats 10% and yes i tried different combinations and different powders etc......

Thats when i went to Hydroforming, I have formed 500 norma .22-250 cases with NO FAILURES....... .338Lapua hydroforming..... NO FAILURES...

IMHO i feel you have it backwards for the casings.... In fact with fireforming brass i seem to remember that a small percentage of failures was acceptable....

Once again, this is my experience, as having the custom hydroforming dies made and used, and before that, fireforming for the same rifles.....
 
Interesting, haven't heard of hydroforming before. I fireformed 250 Win 25-06 to AI using the fast powder/cornmeal technique without a single case failure so maybe I was just lucky. More info or a link to hydroforming would be appreciated cause now I have the wildcat bug.
 
bradtothebone said:
Fire forming does not cause damage to the rifle or brass casing???? Ok rifle, but brass??? I have fireformed with the COW method and certain makes of brass have different failure rates, but i have always had some split necks or a failure of some sort..... Ie....- Fireforming Nosler .22-250 brass - I had failures of approx 2-20 casings..... Winchester - 1-10... Thats 10% and yes i tried different combinations and different powders etc......

Thats when i went to Hydroforming, I have formed 500 norma .22-250 cases with NO FAILURES....... .338Lapua hydroforming..... NO FAILURES...

IMHO i feel you have it backwards for the casings.... In fact with fireforming brass i seem to remember that a small percentage of failures was acceptable....

Once again, this is my experience, as having the custom hydroforming dies made and used, and before that, fireforming for the same rifles.....
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I have fireformed over 400 22-250 cases into the AI 40 degree with out any case failures using over the counter loaded and reloading both virgin and once fired brass using WW/Remington cases and ammunition
 
Years ago I used a Gibbs hydraulic forming process, originally designed for use with refrigerant oil. I used trannie fluid (had a lot of it available at the time). Worked ok, but you had to be careful cleaning the cases after, make sure you got all the oil residue out. For an AI case, I find fire forming way easier, and have had no failures. For the Gibbs cases, it's arguable. I use the "necked parent case, magnum primer, pistol powder, cream of wheat, toilet paper wad" method, which works, but is very noisy in the house (and kind of messy too, lol.) - dan
 
I've fireformed several thousand cases over the years, mostly in my 223AI. But I also have a 257AI and a 280AI.

I have lost the very occasional case with the 223, but with it I use once-fired brass. Providing I used new cases, I've never lost a single case.

The hydroforming does sound interesting however.
 
Soory Paul....Kinda hijacked yer thread....

Well, i must be doin something wrong...as i had split necks, had casing break off at the shoulder to body junction when resizing..... ANYWAYS.... I prefer hydroforming, it just uses water AND I dont have to go anywhere to shoot them, nor do i have to load them.......AND no powder, no mess....In my basement i can form, and load to go the the range/shooting...




Hey Paul thats ONE nice stock on that thing..We must think alike cause i do beleive thats what my A5 is coming like.....

Summerland here we come!!
 
With tongue firmly in cheek I say "I agree! Powder and the mess from shooting are bad! Bad, bad, bad!!! And all that stupid practice I get while actually shooting a rifle instead of sitting in my basement!"

Have you any more info on the hydro forming? Thanks.
 
Nice rifle.

Remington does make something similar.......the 40-XS. It has an A5 stock but the barrel is 26". Check it out on their website (custom shop). It's not cheap though.
 
huh??

it about40min to nearest range to fireform...as i dont shoot live rounds to form...i dont enjoy going to the range to fire off COW loads a whole bunch... get'er done in the basement, then off to the range to practise on real AI rounds...,.


(Plus i HATE the smell of COW when fireforming, the smell reminds me HAIR burning..... Yuck)

Ill post some pics on another thread when i form another batch....(a couple of days away)
 
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dpopl8r said:
Brad, No, I did not AI it, for a few reasons. First and foremost, this is a hunting rig that will spend much of it's time in the dusty Alberta prairies, and I don't want potential extraction problems that can occur with the AI's in a dirty or fouled chamber. Second, given the factory action and M14-type extractor, I feel more comfortable keeping the pressures at standard LM levels. And third, I have read about short barrel life on the 338 AI's, but this is neither here nor there, as many variables play into that. Nevertheless, I am looking forward to shooting it side by side with your AI to compare the two at long range (Summerland ?) ;)
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Paul You have really lost me here. What potential extraction problems??
The AI versions extract EXACTLY the same as the SAAMI spec chamberings.
I have hunted with my 338LAI which is based on a Nesika action, so the tolerances are far tighter than the 700s, in everything from the Kalahari Desert,which is as dusty as it gets, to the Alberta plains with ZERO extraction issues. I know of 3 others that have been to the Kalahari and 2 that live in the Outback of N Australia as well with no problems.
The AI chamberings in fact have LOWER chamber pressures. Barrel life is not influenced at all by the AI chambering, how hot you allow the rifle barrel to get has far more impact on barrel life. Not sure where you are getting your intel from.
 
bradtothebone said:
Well, i must be doin something wrong...as i had split necks, had casing break off at the shoulder to body junction when resizing..... ANYWAYS.... I prefer hydroforming, it just uses water AND I dont have to go anywhere to shoot them, nor do i have to load them.......AND no powder, no mess....In my basement i can form, and load to go the the range/shooting...




Hey Paul thats ONE nice stock on that thing..We must think alike cause i do beleive thats what my A5 is coming like.....

Summerland here we come!!
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Brad, I'm wondering if your AI chamber was cut properly. The headspace needs to be about 0.004" shorter then the parent case, which gives a slight crush to the case when chambering. This helps to prevent case splitting. Perhaps you should have a chamber casting done to see what you have. - dan
 
dan belisle said:
Brad, I'm wondering if your AI chamber was cut properly. The headspace needs to be about 0.004" shorter then the parent case, which gives a slight crush to the case when chambering. This helps to prevent case splitting. Perhaps you should have a chamber casting done to see what you have. - dan
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Dan I can ASSURE you it was cut correctly. The reamer and go gage were a matched set from Mansen. I allow .001 maximum tolerance on the go gage for the bolt to close on. This was not a rechamber job.

The problem was powder charge related.

Hydroform dies do solve all the AI forming issues rather nicely as there is NO guesswork in how much of what powder and how much tamping of the COW etc to get a nice shoulder set. Placing the formed cases in the oven at low heat to evaporate the water used that is left in the cases solves the issues associated with the use of oil to form with.
 
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