7mm-08 – neck sizing, accidental mixed bag brass, multiple Savage bolt rifles

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RonR

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7mm-08 – neck sizing, accidental mixed bag brass, multiple Savage bolt rifles

Requesting some experienced advice on a circumstance here.

I have a mixed bag of brass between 3 different 7mm-08 Savage bolt action rifles that my son and I unfortunately got mixed up. (We traded an Axis for a Weather Warrior and with my Hunter model we have 2 rifles left in 7/08) I am neck sizing only and don’t have full length resizing die.

According to the manufacturer, neck sizing should be specific to each individual rifle…and I can understand why, especially with semi auto. But this situation with bolt actions, in our case, is the consideration I would like to hear from some experienced loaders.

When cycling through the mixed bag, the “feel” is no different between our 2 rifles.

The questions I have are
1. Should I notice a difference in “feel” between cartridges used from on model of bolt action Savage rifle to another when cycling cartridges between the two? (With or without neck resizing, there is no difference in feel.)
2. Pardon my ignorance in advance…but am I missing anything by thinking that if neck resizing creates no different “feel” that it’s ok to use with either rifle in our situation?

Some other notes
- Federal brass once fired cartridges
- If you haven’t already figured it out, yes, we are relatively new to reloading, at least with a press. My teeth were cut on the old Lee Loader for my 303br.
- We are trying our damnest to get loads worked up and out to the range in advance of white tail season. My 15 year old son is loving the physics behind ammunition and the roll your own concept. It’s been good for his science at school and while the "bite is on" so to speak, with his interest, I’ve got to execute some range time with him

We’d appreciate any insight that could be offered.

Regards
RonR
 
you could feel a difference between rifles .

if you have built the round properly and it chambers , your good to go .

sometimes when just necksizing rounds that have be fired in a different rifle , they can be difficult to chamber , but if the bolt closes tight , in my experience they are safe to fire .

actual hunting conditions is where things are different . the rounds need to effortlessly chamber .
who wants to experience a jam up and a missed shot due to slightly oversized ammo .
 
neck size it as per usual and head to the range...........

when you load your hunting ammo up, take it to the range as well, put your safety on and cycle all the ammo through the rifle your intending to use it in, if they all chamber easily then your good to go, if some of them are a bit stiff to chamber then just use them to sight in your rifle at the range.

I have found that brass from a savage rifle has no issue chambering in another savage rifle, but when mixing brass between makes of rifles I have found there can be issues
 
If the empties all chamber ok in both rifles, you are good to go.

Neck size the brass, load as usual.

For ALL hunting ammo in ANY rifle, it is good practice to cycle the ammo through the mag and chamber ahead of time, just to make sure it fits ok.
 
Chamber every sized case in the rifle that you intend to shoot it in before seating any bullets. If the brass chambers, then load them. As to differences between rifles, it has nothing to do with the brand of the rifle, or the action, it is dependent on each specific firearm. A case fired in one rifle, may not chamber in another rifle of the same make and model. Then again, you might get lucky, and the case may chamber in rifles of various makes and models.
 
Every once in a while you get lucky. I have a Savage VLP and a Remington VTR. Both are in .223 Rem.
Neck-sized cases fit both rifles, measurement to the lands is only 0.001" different between the two rifles.

It's nice to just be able to grab a box of reloads from the cabinet and be able to use either rifle.

My .308's on the other hand......................................no such luck!
 
I have been very lucky that way, I have 3 different 243s in 3 different makes of rifles and they will all chamber each others fired cases. I do not use the same loads in these 3 different rifles but it means I can process my brass (all W-W) together for these three rilfes right up to the powder charging phase, which simplifies my life a bunch, as I don't have to segregate the fired empties from these three rifles.......just dump them all into 1 bucket until I'm ready to load.
 
Congratulations on a very good post, very early in your postings on CGN.
You have been given good advice about just shooting them in either rifle.
However, I would like to add something else. Most newly manufactured rifles have very tight chambers with a minimum of head space, which your two rifles probably have. With rifles like these, what is the advantage of neck sizing only? I'll bet the farm that you can't prove by your shooting, that your ammunition neck sized only, is any more accurate than full length resized cases!
The usual stated reason for neck sizing only, is to give additional case life. But with tight fitting chambers on the rifles, the brass cases will last just as long if they are full length resized every time, as the shoulders are just touched in such circumstances.
Also, any bottle neck case that is neck sized only, will sooner or later have to be full length resized, because the shoulder "grows" on firing and soon won't go back in the chamber it was fired in.
So, to save yourself a lot of frustration somewhere down the line, my advice is to get a full length sizing die and full length size every time.
 
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Thanks for the feedback H4831.

I have actually been a member for more than a few years now starting around the time of gun control laws when the liberals were in power federally…just no reason to post. Reading as much as possible on cartridges and rifle reviews… and that’s how we arrived at the 7/08 and Savage as the best fit for my son a few years back. I liked the chambering so much that I got a lefty in the same offering for myself retiring from a 303br that shot deer just fine for me. ( This forum is the best for that…keep it up CGN!)

All the feedback is well received regarding our situation including your comments on full length resizing.

To be perfectly honest, I don’t have enough experience one way or the other as to how much accuracy will improve. I don’t have any results to speak of yet. For me, I guess it’s a little of the manufacturers marketing on anticipated results of neck resizing and case life…and that fact that I haven’t seen a full length sizing set on the shelf here in Saskatoon.

As you have stated regarding full length resizing…I won’t be afraid to try that going forward. I clearly understand your post.

Much appreciated.

Regards
RonR
 
I have been doing some interesting experimenting with two new rifles in 7mm-08, one a Tikka T3 hunter and the other a Savage Axis. I have a shooting family, some pretty veteran shooters and reloaders and one, our youngest grand daughter, just got her PAL a year or two ago. One other family member now has the Savage, so I have them both here, working up loads that will shoot well in either rifle. Of course, I am full length resizing every case before I load it.
As is common with two rifles in the same calibre, one, this time the Savage, will shoot any given load faster, in this case about 75 fps faster than will the Tikka shoot the same load. More speed means more pressure, so any load that is safe in the Savage will be safe in the Tikka.
There is considerable difference in seating depth to the rifling between the two. In two samples of bullets, one a 139 grain Hornady Interlock and the other a 130 grain Speer HP, when the bullets were tight to the rifling in the Savage, they had about .040" clearance in the Tikka. Thus, I need only be concerned with the Savage, as anything that will go in it, will be OK, with considerable clearance in the Tikka.
Now you purists, who are so concerned about minute differences in depth to the rifling for accuracy, Weatherby, in an attempt to lower recoil, Weatherby "free bored" their heavy kickers, meaning the bullets travelled on the order of half an inch before they hit the rifling. Did any of you ever hear of the original Weatherby rifles not being accurate?
When I am reloading for the kids I load up what are perfectly safe loads that work well and give no hint of being too heavy, then I back off one grain of powder, for the loads I give them.
The loads I have ended up with for them, in their 7-08 rifles, for general use and hunting, are 139 or 140 grain bullets and amazingly, 43 grains of Aliant Re15, or 43 grains of IMR 4064, or 43 grains of Norma 203, are all accurate, easy to shoot and will give up to, or a little over, 2800 fps., depending on which rifle they are shot in.
 
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As a rookie reloader this is great information. Good perspective that applies to what we have here in our situation. Family shooting is what my aim is for us here. My daughters like handguns...hoping to get them certified in the future.

I haven't even dabbled in seating depth yet. I'll get there soon enough once I learn how to determine land distances effectively. I have tried a technique from the Nosler reloading manual and haven't been convinced of the appearance of the marks enough on the projectile to be conclusive enough for my concerns...but that's my inexperience in trying to determine seating depth. I'll search some posts in the future to get some more technique and information to be satisfied with results and measurements.

Here we have 139 gr SST's as part of a recommendation from another GunNut retailer as a good start and Varget from an experienced counter guy at Cabelas here in S'toon for this cartridge and overall application usage. Funny thing is that I have Re15 from years ago (in good storage) from my days playing around with a lee loader. The Re15 bottle is about half full ,but my understanding is that Alliant powders are more difficult to find (perhaps inexperience again re reloading supply that you seasoned vets have contact to obtain when you guys are looking for it) and that's got me a little reluctant to develop with something I can't readily find.

Appreciate your time 4831 and responses. GREAT content.

I have got a question for you...ever used PPU (PRVI) 7/08 brass in the Tikka or Savage? I purchased a bag of 100 new and the cartridges are really difficult when closing the bolt in either of our Savage rifles without any processing on the new brass. The one measurement that caught my interest is the rim thickness compared to the Federal brass we saved from our rifles. PPU seems to be .005 thicker at the rim. (The purchase source is solid, and satisfied with the support and knowledge from the retailer...just looking for a bit of experience here on what I am experiencing.)

Regards

RonR
 
RonR, I have used PRVI brass in .308 and .300wm, and I did find that the new brass had a slight buildup of material right at the top of the neck, especially in .300wm. After sizing I spent a little extra time to chamfer the necks. I didn't notice any difficulty chambering the rounds (in savage rifles) however I chamfered all the necks so I can't really tell you if I experienced the same issue as you with unprocessed brass. I have not measured the case thickness at the neck. As well I don't have a rifle in the chambering you have. Not sure if this helps you but I can say I enjoy the PRVI brass, it's been good to me and the price is nice as well.
 
When sizing for a chamber, shooters should consider 2 dimensions... Headspace - length from bottom of case to shoulder datum line and Diameter. In SAAMI, there is a tolerance range for both and that can lead to a range of confusion.

Think shoes.... You can have a size 11 NARROW foot or a Size 9 WIDE foot. Or some combo of the above.

Dies fall into the same categories with FL sizers USUALLY going to min SAAMI spec in both length and girth. I say usually cause die makers are allowed a range of tolerance and as their tooling wears, the die itself can and will vary in dimensions. With more companies looking at cutting everything with CNC machines, this range could narrow but I am pretty sure most is still done with reamers.... and reamers wear and get resharpened.... they usually start life on the big side.

So how do you get the best fit AND function? Well, match shooters have for decades used the practise of neck sizing fireformed cases. Works great until the case gets a bit long and chambering is tough ( all actions have some degree of spring so actually compress under firing allowing the case to stretch). Solution is the BODY die

The Body die is essentially cut to max SAAMI specs in the diameter but MIN spec in the length.... This would be the Size 9 WIDE shoe vs the FL sizer which would be a size 9 NARROW. When using this, you are bumping the shoulder area only leaving the body of the case untouched UNLESS the chamber is at or over max diameter, then the die WILL size the case body back to SAAMI spec.

If the chamber is narrow, the die doesn't touch the case body at all.

Why not just use a FL sizer all the time? Because most will never check to see how much smaller their FL sizer is vs their chamber. If the concern is 100% chambering under any and all conditions (military, LEO use), by all means - small ammo in big chambers make for 100% bangs and happy soldiers. BUT as reloaders we now expose ourself to another very real problem... case separation and tearing off the back 1/4 of the case.

If on a hunt in the middle of nowhere, you just ruined your trip and if you were trying to put another round into a "bad" situation.... well, things just got a whole lot worst.

I do not prescribe to only 1 way of doing anything. I use the tools and methods to maximise the results. Compromises will be taken but understanding how it all works will let shooters make better choices in their tooling AND when tooling needs to be changed.

RonR, it sounds like the Savages you have were set up very close in headspace (length) and that it is also on the min side. If any new brass is stiff to chamber, that brass is simply made a few thou LONGER then the chamber you have... yes, you are feeling something as thick as a human hair to piece of tape.

Solution, run them through a body die set to your chambers dimension. Odds are you will not even feel any sizing being done but suddenly all those cases will chamber nicely. I would strongly recommend you do this cause with a min spec chamber, you may be forced to always use reloads.... factory ammo also varies in dimensions and why some factory rifles use very generously sized chambers.

If you need to use factory ammo, check (safely of course) that the ammo will indeed chamber... min spec in a hunting rifle isn't always ideal especially if weather is expected.

For me, I neck size AND body size... this ensures all ammo functions in my rifle 100% of the time AND I keep the best level of performance WITHOUT risk of case separation.

Works for me...

Jerry
 
I prefer to neck size only (if possible) because it means I can skip lubing the brass. I like the Lee Collet die for this.

But, as I said, for hunting, make sure to run all the rounds through the mag and chamber. Home is the place to find a problem.
 
Thanks for the feedback Jerry and for putting it in analogies that can be comprehended.

Great information and much to digest. I’ll be honest again and haven’t heard the term BODY die but I get the concept with size 9 wide and size 9 narrow as being the difference between body and FL dies. I would be interested in obtaining a body size in 7/08 in the future.

Bruce and yourself Jerry have pointed out that FL sizing and BODY sizing is something that should not be shelved as something “not to consider” in reloading because it returns to known datums for highest probability of least amount of failure at the range or hunting <<< if that makes sense to any of you…and I get that. Don’t get stuck on any one technique as the be all end all method of reloading. I’ll incorporate that going forward and it works for me.

From the other responses I have gathered that it’s ok to neck size but understand what this methods limitations are, impact on case expectancies regarding fit, and to check fit at the range prior to hitting the road for hunting. The comments from the big hitters here is resonating.

All great advice.

As for these Savages being min on the specs…I’ll just have to work with it and spend lots of time working on it. The Mrs. may not like it but I certainly will. Lol.

Thanks for taking the time everyone.

RonR
 
If the loaded rounds chamber easily and the bolt closes you are safe to fire the round. You may have difficulty extracting them because the brass have a memory for the size of the chamber they were first fired in. Loads like this can be used for sighting in and practice but I would not take a chance hunting with them, sticky brass when a second shot is needed is not worth the risk. I use only new or once fired in the rifle brass for hunting. When you consider the total cost of hunting today ammo is a minor expense. One tank of gas will buy a lot of ammo.
 
remdog said:
If the loaded rounds chamber easily and the bolt closes you are safe to fire the round.
Click to expand...

Absolutely untrue

remdog said:
You may have difficulty extracting them because the brass have a memory for the size of the chamber they were first fired in.
Click to expand...

Any difficulty extracting a case must be investigated as a potentially dangerous situation.

remdog said:
Loads like this can be used for sighting in and practice but I would not take a chance hunting with them, sticky brass when a second shot is needed is not worth the risk. I use only new or once fired in the rifle brass for hunting. When you consider the total cost of hunting today ammo is a minor expense. One tank of gas will buy a lot of ammo.
Click to expand...

Any ammo that is suspect in its functioning should be resolved or not used..... There are a wide range of possible "problems" that can lead to issues with extraction... none of them are good. Some can be down right dangerous to you and your firearm.

if the ammo is not properly sized for the chamber/rifle and doesn't function properly, STOP USING IT.

Jerry
 
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