7mm-08 - Pros/Cons heavies

WhelanLad

WhelanLad

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Hey fellas, im about through what has been a great box of Woodleigh projectiles loaded up for my deear kimberly.

I can obtain the Woodleighs for a suprising $38.10 delivered to my Door and so ill be using the Brand again , however i have choices..
Being a fan of the -If it aint broke dont fix it club,

What are some Pros and Cons if i go to a 160gr or even a 175??gr Weldcore.

Primarily used for the Big Deer of The South ( Sambar deer) (300kg) heavy boned , Elk sized, thick skinned. XP3 class.

Lol.

With the exception of two 300m shots, most have been within 15m to 250m
I use a 2-7 x 33

Cheers
WL
 
You would be giving up some trajectory for theoretically better penetration. Because of design constraints, the 175's, ( and maybe the 160's) would be taking up some of your powder space, so you lose a little more velocity there. The 7-08's cousin, the 7x57, was designed to work in a standard length action with heavy bullets, so it can make the maximum use of heavy bullets. The 7-08 keeps a pretty close race with the 140-150's, and starts to lose ground after that.

In my experience, I've found that heavy bullets are reliable killers, but not spectacular ones. Don't expect a lot of animals to drop on the spot. I don't agree with the theory that slow, heavy bullets hit harder than light fast ones unless the impact velocity is increased as well. For instance, I wouldn't expect a 175 at 2400 to hit harder or be more effective than a 140 at 2800.

You'll have to think about whether your hunting situation warrants giving up flat trajectory for extra penetration.
 
Yeah agree there 9.3, im finding the 140s, or 7mm08 in general is not a Wack em an stop em calibre, and to be truthful I did read about the 7mm08 as being a Slow killer through the website ballistic? something or rather, it mentioned that the shooter would become confident after a few then a bit over confident and then begin to 'woiund or lose' game by asking too much from it.

I rekon that happened with me when I went to the 139gr interloks after using the 150gr Feds.... the 150s worked so well.

Anywhooo back on track, Ive found shooting them even under 100 and quite often under 50, the projectiles arnt exiting an the deer are still running 50+m on a death run.
it does seem to lack the Hydrolic shock of say, the 270 Winchester.

hence why I asked, hoping to get some more feedback / ideas or as you mention.. continue with what I have

I rekon what I would really want is a 150gr Woodleigh :) non existant in .284

WL
 
I agree and disagree with some of the posts here.

Heading up to and beyond 160gr in a 7-08 will give you diminishing returns on bullet performance.

I have used 7/08 for almost 25 years as well as others I hunt with.The "slow killer" statement doesn't ring true and is likely more dependent on shot placement or poor bullet choice or a combination of both.

The 7/08 really gets it performance with 140's with a fairly decent bullet. Once you get past 200ish yards the retained velocity in a 140 ish bullet will perform well and as needed, the heavies at those ranges will start losing velocity faster and bullets will not perform as expected, the 160 or 175's will be a better candidate for larger 7mm chamberings getting 2800 is feet per second to start with.

I have chosen and strongly endorse Swift Scirocco II's in 150gr with a BC of .515 bonded tipped bullet, performance on game is amazing at varying ranges and accuracy is amazing.

Other good choices are partitions, other bonded or interlock style bullets in 140 weights.Barnes also work well.

Personally I think you will find the 175's destabilize quickly with a factory 9.125 or 9.250 twist with 7/08 velocities, the 160's may be slightly better , out of the 2 I would go 160 and NOT push past 250m, if you do, then a more fragile and lighter bullet may be in order.

Again just my 2/100ths of a dollar.Hope this helps.
 
I can't see any compelling reason to bother with bullets over 150gr in the 7-08 for deer or elk sized animals. I think you should stay a member in good standing of that club you mentioned. :)

There is no such thing as a "slow killing" cartridge in the way it was described. A 140gr bullet of decent construction put in the right place will kill elk sized game reliably. So will a 7mm rem mag, 30-06, etc. Poor shot placement from any of those cartridges will be less effective. The fact is that rifles and cartridges don't get overconfident and sloppy, that's a human trait. A poorly placed shot is the shooter's fault, and those stories about being a slow killing cartridge are excuses for poor performance from people who messed up the shot.
 
interesting fellas.

Will be sticking to the Gang , IINBDFI :)

heres a part of the article,

"
At the a fore mentioned ranges beyond 150 yards and using factory 140 grain ammunition, the hunter should aim to break the foreleg bones of game. Both rear lung and neck shots from various brands of 7mm08 ammunition often result in very slow killing at extended ranges. With care to shot placement, the 7mm08 gives excellent results and like the 6.5x55, it is all too easy to become lulled into a false sense of security. It is therefore not unusual to have a string of successes followed by an abysmal failure after neglecting the above mentioned shot placement."



so corrections to my above mentioned post, I skipped a few 'important' mentions!!

140gr Weldcores here I come, again

WL
 
When you trade speed for more
Penetration you better be certain that penetration is what you need. I've never found a system for instant drops on thin skinned game that worked better than an easy opening bullet at hyper velocity. That's because there isn't one.

Nothing wrong with the woodleighs, they are a great bullet
at normal hunting distances.
 
WhelanLad said:
interesting fellas.

Will be sticking to the Gang , IINBDFI :)

heres a part of the article,

"
At the a fore mentioned ranges beyond 150 yards and using factory 140 grain ammunition, the hunter should aim to break the foreleg bones of game. Both rear lung and neck shots from various brands of 7mm08 ammunition often result in very slow killing at extended ranges. With care to shot placement, the 7mm08 gives excellent results and like the 6.5x55, it is all too easy to become lulled into a false sense of security. It is therefore not unusual to have a string of successes followed by an abysmal failure after neglecting the above mentioned shot placement."



so corrections to my above mentioned post, I skipped a few 'important' mentions!!

140gr Weldcores here I come, again

WL
Click to expand...

Aiming to break a front leg is very strange advice. where did that article come from?
 
I think Ballistic studies has a lot of good info. Most of it agrees with my experience. I often aim just behind the front leg on a broadside shot and the deer will run a good way. Quartering toward me almost bang flop. Broadside at 295yds in line with the leg was a bang flop. I chest shot extreme downhill 75yds Bang Flop. So about 1 in 5 or 6 was Bang Flop. Oh yeah Black Bear 200yds through both shoulders bang flop. Cow elk 110yds hit rib going in and shattered offside leg at the joint massive damage 3 bounds and a slide down a steep hill.

My buddy did a bunch of bullet tests especially at low velocity and found the Hornady interlock to be quite a tough bullet. Pretty much my experience on game too. If you hit bone the trauma goes way up.

Hunting with 150gr Accubond Long Range this year, I hope we can get some good results to share.

I think Nathan Foster(Ballistic Studies) really liked the 150gr Partition, rapid expansion and penetration.

Who's using SSTs? Or Ballistic tips?
 
wilbar said:
My buddy did a bunch of bullet tests especially at low velocity and found the Hornady interlock to be quite a tough bullet. Pretty much my experience on game too. If you hit bone the trauma goes way up.

Hunting with 150gr Accubond Long Range this year, I hope we can get some good results to share.

Who's using SSTs? Or Ballistic tips?
Click to expand...

Used 139 SST's last year and trying 140 BTs this year. Apparently, the SST and BT's are of the same character...we'll see this fall how the BT's do. The SST's were just too explosive for us, and perhaps the BTs will be the same. I am interested in knowing the results of the Accubonds. (I'm considering throwing some in for my son to try.)

No intent to hijack the thread Whelan, but are those results from your friend Willbar posted or available? If it's related to 7-08 velocities and 120 to 150 gr weights I'd be interested in knowing more. I believe there are less ###y alternative bullets out there, like the interlock, that would achieve terminal performance that we are looking for. I'm a sophomore reloader with limited experience on reload/bullet performance. If BTs don't work as well as anticipated I'll be looking for alternatives to try.

Regards
Ron
 
Regarding the Interlocks, i have used thosr in 708, and for other deer like Fallow and Red deer they would be good to great but not for Sambar as my experience i shot a few witg thrm however on a hind where i hit the F Leg at around 100m and it shattered the leg but did not penetrate and the deer did not die , i chased and lost it to the thick bush.. hence my opinion on those.

In Lung shots/Ribs i did get pass throughs however..

From there I went 140gr Woodleigh (just finished loading 30x )

I did use Accubond in 150g/308 worked a treat on Sambar.. and fallow n reds by still expanding but penetrating.

To above, I would load the AB before the BT and skip the SST all together :) unless at LR, then the others may come into play.

Becoz im hunting Alpine tops aswell as Thick gulley lowland, i stuck to 140s.

No hijaack if its 7mm08 or bullet performance related.

WL
 
Funnily enough i found the 130gr corelokt to be reasonably 'strong' at 2800 MV on the sambar at all ranges, whereas you would find at Full Steam it would open violently..

Just goes to show, MV, Impact Velocity and Target Species all play a part in Bullet performance.

WL
 
wilbar said:
I think Ballistic studies has a lot of good info. Most of it agrees with my experience. I often aim just behind the front leg on a broadside shot and the deer will run a good way. Quartering toward me almost bang flop. Broadside at 295yds in line with the leg was a bang flop. I chest shot extreme downhill 75yds Bang Flop. So about 1 in 5 or 6 was Bang Flop. Oh yeah Black Bear 200yds through both shoulders bang flop. Cow elk 110yds hit rib going in and shattered offside leg at the joint massive damage 3 bounds and a slide down a steep hill.

My buddy did a bunch of bullet tests especially at low velocity and found the Hornady interlock to be quite a tough bullet. Pretty much my experience on game too. If you hit bone the trauma goes way up.

Hunting with 150gr Accubond Long Range this year, I hope we can get some good results to share.

I think Nathan Foster(Ballistic Studies) really liked the 150gr Partition, rapid expansion and penetration.

Who's using SSTs? Or Ballistic tips?
Click to expand...

Probably I just interpreted incorrectly the part where he talks about shooting legs - to me that means shooting below the body of the animal. Probably he and you are referring to what I would call the shoulder, which is an anchor shot. Generally most of us try to avoid shooting the legs off an animal. :)

For deer and elk sized animals I don't see the point of using slow expanding bullets. If you want them to drop fast a regular bullet that expands quicker kills faster.
 
jethunter said:
Aiming to break a front leg is very strange advice. where did that article come from?
Click to expand...

It comes from Nathan Foster in New Zealand, he has been doing bullet performance studies on game at normal to very long distances for a lot of years with thousands of kills. Each bullet design has a velocity window where it will open up reliably and do a bunch of damage for a quick kill. Once the bullet gets below that velocity it will tend to over penetrate and do little damage on the way through resulting in slow deaths. Aiming to break the leg bones on the way in forces the bullet to open up at those slow speeds and kill quicker.
He has some excellent books.
 
WhelanLad said:
Funnily enough i found the 130gr corelokt to be reasonably 'strong' at 2800 MV on the sambar at all ranges, whereas you would find at Full Steam it would open violently..

Just goes to show, MV, Impact Velocity and Target Species all play a part in Bullet performance.

WL
Click to expand...

For the 7mm-08, you can't beat a 140grain pill in my books. Heavier is too long, takes up powder space. Besides, you get nicer velocity with the 140, while still having plenty of weight to kill with. If you can't do it with a 140, then the 7-08 is the wrong cartridge in my books.

I could see stepping down a tad in weight to get a bit longer range if you are using a bullet that has a relatively high minimum impact velocity (partitions only need 1800fps, while a tsx needs like 2200fps i want to say) but i wouldn't bother with anything heavier than 140. As they say, speed kills.
 
I just develoved a load my 7mm-08. 162gr Hornady ELD-X with IMR4350 powder. Easily get 2700 fps. Shot this load out to 800 yards and very accurate, sub moa at 100 yards. I shoot everything from 120gr to 162gr through this rifle depending on the application
 
Here are some of my friends bullet tests with water jugs

708expansiontest_zpsda56a3ea.jpg


These bullets are left to right 139gr SST @ 1,850fps; 139gr Interbond @ 1,826fps; 139gr Interlock@ 1,910fps; 140gr Accubond @ 1,930fps

bulletexpansion_zps1b6d820b.jpg
 
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