scrammersam
Regular
- Location
- abbotsford, bc
i know of one guy who loved to shoot everything with his 30-06 over there
7mm and africa
- Thread starter mackillan
- Start date
Thanks guys. Is a .375 H&H better than a .375 Ruger? I would prefer a Sako rifle. Which is flatter shooting? I wouldnt be shooting 5 boxs or anything. Would it be similar to 12 guage 3 inch goose loads? How would it comepare to a 45/70 420 gr black powder?
Mackillon,
You don't need a .375, but you may be surprised by how little they do kick. The term "plainsgame" covers a lot of ground, a duiker is plainsgame, so is a eland or giraffe. A duiker might be 20 pounds, a giraffe 3500 to 4000 and eland is halfway in between. Once you take the biggest animals ( and the very smallest) out of the equation a .300 Win mag, 30-06, .338 or host of elk style cartridges start to look very good. On the otherhand, the normal pattern is for first time African hunters to book a plainsgame hunt, then immediately buy a .375 and start planning a buffalo hunt. You can't fight it.
Mackillon,
You don't need a .375, but you may be surprised by how little they do kick. The term "plainsgame" covers a lot of ground, a duiker is plainsgame, so is a eland or giraffe. A duiker might be 20 pounds, a giraffe 3500 to 4000 and eland is halfway in between. Once you take the biggest animals ( and the very smallest) out of the equation a .300 Win mag, 30-06, .338 or host of elk style cartridges start to look very good. On the otherhand, the normal pattern is for first time African hunters to book a plainsgame hunt, then immediately buy a .375 and start planning a buffalo hunt. You can't fight it.
x2
If you're going to Africa for a plains game hunt, you can do it with a 7x57 and a .270 provided that (1) you're outfitter is OK with your choice; (2) you use superior bullets (e.g. Barnes Triple Shocks, Interbonds or other bonded bullets) and (3) you can shoot accurately from various positions (e.g. sticks standing up, kneeling, sitting etc.).
It is something that gets into your system, though, and once you get back you will probably be trying to figure out how to get back for something bigger. Like Dogleg says...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174930
The 375 H&H is the proven old timer, the 375 Ruger is the new kid on the block who is just as capable as his grandpa, but a bit more cocky about it. In other words, if your in to time proven rounds, the h&h is for you, if you want new and flashy, get the ruger. A critter wont know the difference, and neither would you if you didn't buy the ammo for it.
No clue about the stiffness of the recoil, but i know that a 45/70 blackpowder load is a little slower recoiling than a smokeless round (push vs punch)
http://www.sako.fi/sako85models.php?safari
Are you planning on hunting a buffalo or elephant? I did not mean to startle you. If you are going to hunt critters like the Impala or Zebra, your 7mm will do just fine. Unless you plan on hunting somthing bigger you are not required to use anything larger. As for the H&H vs the Ruger, I think their both great. The advantage of the Ruger is I see in the next few years more entry level rifles will become available in a big bore option thanks to it's short length. Just think, a Stevens 200 big bore!
Went with both because of the possibility of Buffalo.
Are you planning on hunting a buffalo or elephant? I did not mean to startle you. If you are going to hunt critters like the Impala or Zebra, your 7mm will do just fine. Unless you plan on hunting somthing bigger you are not required to use anything larger. As for the H&H vs the Ruger, I think their both great. The advantage of the Ruger is I see in the next few years more entry level rifles will become available in a big bore option thanks to it's short length. Just think, a Stevens 200 big bore!
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
As I said earlier, carry the rifle you need. If buffalo (hippo, elephant, or big cats) is in the mix, a .375 or a 9.3X62 is a minimum but a sensible minimum. There is little to choose between the .375 H&H and the .375 Ruger. The .375 H&H is better with longer bullets, while the Ruger is cheaper to acquire. Even if you are on a plains game only hunt, IMHO you should be carrying a rifle with which you can defend yourself if you are in an area that has dangerous game. Carrying two rifles increases the chance of having the wrong one in your hands when you need it. If you do take 2 rifles, get the help to carry the light rifle, or in an emergency you might very well see your heavy disappearing into the distance while you are left to do battle with you light rifle.
It depends where you're hunting. If you're hunting on a private reserve there's generally no minimum caliber requirement. If you're going to be hunting in GMUs then maybe you're best off taking a 375.
I think the 303 probably takes that biscuit.
ah yes well theres the kicker isnt it? the lad said plains, and that does encompass our spiral horned, metric tonned SOB doesnt it?. boy you' had want to be some kind of wizard to drop them with any consistancy with sub thirty cal stuff. I watched one and a 1500 USD trophy fee phuk off with a 220 grain 350 rem mag slug in him. So when you ask opinion on gun for plains, you talkin all plains or selective?For that matter if you get a 56" kudu straight on that wont turn for you, you may find your 277 slug veres off that brisket. Remember you can go with a sling shot if you want but you better hope if the sling shot didnt knock him down that their trackers dont find blood...
PS. If that animal sweat blood those guys will find it and you get to toss the price of a real gun cal to walk away with no more than your head hanging. I wonder how many on this forum have kissed trophy fees goodbye cause their afraid to man up to a real gun and just dont admit it? You know who you are
Funny, our PH is of the opinion that a well placed .30-06 premium bullet is more than adequate for eland. Definitely more adequate than someone trying to compensate for their manhood with a magnum they were afraid of. I'm sure your experience is far greater than his though! I'll tell bouhuntress that if she want to be a real man that she's way better off with a rifle that kicks the snot out of her or that she just isn't man enough to hunt eland and kudu and needs to take them off her list..
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Funny, our PH is of the opinion that a well placed .30-06 premium bullet is more than adequate for eland. Definitely more adequate than someone trying to compensate for their manhood with a magnum they were afraid of. I'm sure your experience is far greater than his though! I'll tell bouhuntress that if she want to be a real man that she's way better off with a rifle that kicks the snot out of her or that she just isn't man enough to hunt eland and kudu and needs to take them off her list..
My PH disagrees with you even though we tried and failed to bring one down with a 300 winny. Only a pure broadside shot is a likely kill with a 30-06. Kevin Robertson of the Perfect shot book recommends a 375. Having wounded one with a 30 calibre bullet I agree...$1600 Us later.
A Kudu is like a slightly built elk, an eland is like a bramha bull with funny horns, in a herd and very skittish. The 30-06 works great for all plains game except the really big stuff, an Eland is a bigger animal than a cape buffalo, with a 30 calibre bullet unless you break a shoulder you will be tracking for a longtime. Is Bowhuntress going to be hunting buff? If so she should use the same gun on eland.
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Funny, our PH is of the opinion that a well placed .30-06 premium bullet is more than adequate for eland. Definitely more adequate than someone trying to compensate for their manhood with a magnum they were afraid of. I'm sure your experience is far greater than his though! I'll tell bouhuntress that if she want to be a real man that she's way better off with a rifle that kicks the snot out of her or that she just isn't man enough to hunt eland and kudu and needs to take them off her list..
WHAT was that little tantrum about?.. I really dont know what you've been told, but apparently some people will tell other people anything to sastify their inhibitions. Its got squat to do with a gun you fear or dont fear. Its got to do with a cartridge being very very marginal for the job. Personally, I'm googoo for the 06, just added a fourth to my rack, but I still know that each cal in my rack has its intended purpose. I'm not saying you may not kill a good eland bull with an 06. You may infact do it fine IF everything lines up just perfecto. Let me ask you, is that the way things typically go when hunting?. Animals dont always strike that perfect kodak pose for you. When your eland doesnt at 8 in the AM and at 4 in the PM your tracker is still yelling"lots blood but no find sir" take a second to reflect back on what you've been told here by Martin and myself
PS: So if your PH thinks the 06 is more adequate on eland than someone compensating for manhood, or however they worded that to put you at ease. Ask them what they think of someone who stouts out behind a 416 rem W/ full house 300 semi solids like it was a 22lr ? If they dont see a difference, get yourself a new PH, ya got a dud
PSS. If the max that can be swung is an 06,eland should be off the list"as you say it"Even if you got bucks to burn, I say that as well for the animals sake
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- Location
- Dah Soo,ON
Martin, I appreciate what you are saying and there is a possibility she may use my .338 on the eland but after speaking with numerous PHs and African veterans, the one common theme was to shoot a gun that you were comfortable with and not afraid of. Every one of them had a story of Mr. Macho Magnum strolling into camp with more grains of bullet than brain cells and ending up with a disaster. I've seen the attitude before that size makes up for all mistakes but it ain't so. A well placed shot is still the most effective weapon in your arsenol. If that means waiting for the perfect shot, well you wait. There seems to be this misconception amoung the Macho magnum crowd that as bore size increase, so too does the ability to take questionable shots. Again, it ain't so. I've seen plenty of big North American critters, bison and Yukon moose to name two that are in the size range of an eland, very effectively taken down with a .30-06 and 165 grain bullets by waiting for perfect shot placement. I've got nothing against magnums and for those that are comfortable shooting them, they are indeed ideal but for those that aren't, shot placement and accuracy go a long way. I really don't see how much recoil you can withstand as a measure of your manhood as some posters in this thread would have you believe. Often there is a direct corelation between bore size and....well you know.
Many of the common misconceptions about bullet weight and size just don't apply to today's bonded and monometal bullets. A bad shot is a bad shot and a good shot is a good shot regardless of bore size and there isn't a plains game animal alive that you won't get adequate penetration on with a .30-06 and the proper bullet.
I hunted nilgai in Texas a year ago and while nowhere the size of eland, they are thought to be bullet-proof buy most U.S. gun writers and the ranch we were hunting on had a .338 minimum calibre policy and prefered clients to shoot a .375 or bigger. Well, when I showed up for the hunt, circumstances dictated that I ended up with a .30-06 and I was promptly told I couldn't hunt. After some begging and pleading and agreeing to an instant follow up shot by the guide, I was allowed to go hunting. To make a long story short, I waited for the perfect shot and placed a bullet exactly where the guide told be not to, right in the shoulder, and the nilgai hit the ground before he could even shoulder his super magnum. His comment was that I got lucky......personally, I like to chalk it up to a well placed Scirrocco.
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