.7mm rem mag limmitations
- Thread starter death-junky
- Start date
I hope to smoke an Elk and Mule Deer in a couple of weeks with a 160 gr accubond over a full case of reloder 22, I'll let you know. seriously, I'm with Todd, I would shoot anything in NAmerica even a grizzly bear as long as it wasn't up close and personal(on purpose). Good all round caliber.
I've posted this before but this grizzly was shot with one of my handloads- 160gr X bullet form a 7RM. Velocity IIRC was about 2900fps. It was at about 160 yards.
Grizz went down hard, the bullet had pierced both shoulders and exited.
We both shot the bear again, but it wasn't really necessary at all.
Grizz went down hard, the bullet had pierced both shoulders and exited.
We both shot the bear again, but it wasn't really necessary at all.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I wasn't going to bite, but what the hell - I suppose it could be done as a stunt, but 1000 yard moose shooting is quite beyond the equipment and personal abilities of most riflemen. A 160 gr .284 caliber "premium" hunting bullet loaded to 3000 fps, and as normally sighted from a hunting rifle, would have 290.6 inches of drop at 1000 yards. Now if you miscalculated the range by 25 yards - the true range being 975 - the point of impact is just under 2 feet higher. It is therefore fair to say that there can be no practical error in your range estimation if the bullet is going to impact anywhere near your point of aim.
I've shot alot of hunting rifles at extended ranges, and discovered that once the range exceeds 800 yards that it is difficult to stay on a 12" steel plate under ideal light and wind conditions. Target rifles are another matter, but I won't be packing a 20 pound rifle across the tundra anytime soon.
I personally do not think that kinetic energy is a particularly good yard stick to estimate how well a bullet will kill a game animal, but from what we have learned about bullet wounds we can conclude that a .30-30 170 gr bullet at 100 yards will kill moose most of the time. A .30-30 has about 1200 fp's of energy at 100 yards. Now by comparison we see that a 160 gr. bullet at 1300 fps only produces 600 fp of energy at 1000 yards so we may conclude that the 7mm will kill half as well at 1000 yards as the .30-30 kills at 100. Due to the limited energy at impact the shot would have to be fairly precise in order to produce a clean kill which returns us the the first part of the problem.
I would pose the following questions to the 1000 yards moose shooters:
1) How did you determine the range to the target?
2) What were the weather conditions?
3) What time of day was it?
4) What rifle and scope combination were you using?
5) What load did you use?
6) How many shots did it take to kill the moose?
7) How much time passes from the first to last shot?
8) Did you in fact find and collect the animal after it was dead?
9) If you found it, how many bullets hit the animal?
10) Would you do it again?
I've shot alot of hunting rifles at extended ranges, and discovered that once the range exceeds 800 yards that it is difficult to stay on a 12" steel plate under ideal light and wind conditions. Target rifles are another matter, but I won't be packing a 20 pound rifle across the tundra anytime soon.
I personally do not think that kinetic energy is a particularly good yard stick to estimate how well a bullet will kill a game animal, but from what we have learned about bullet wounds we can conclude that a .30-30 170 gr bullet at 100 yards will kill moose most of the time. A .30-30 has about 1200 fp's of energy at 100 yards. Now by comparison we see that a 160 gr. bullet at 1300 fps only produces 600 fp of energy at 1000 yards so we may conclude that the 7mm will kill half as well at 1000 yards as the .30-30 kills at 100. Due to the limited energy at impact the shot would have to be fairly precise in order to produce a clean kill which returns us the the first part of the problem.
I would pose the following questions to the 1000 yards moose shooters:
1) How did you determine the range to the target?
2) What were the weather conditions?
3) What time of day was it?
4) What rifle and scope combination were you using?
5) What load did you use?
6) How many shots did it take to kill the moose?
7) How much time passes from the first to last shot?
8) Did you in fact find and collect the animal after it was dead?
9) If you found it, how many bullets hit the animal?
10) Would you do it again?
- Location
- calgary alberta
Yes sir, not once but twice, 1 at 988 yards 1 at 1120 yards. In front of several witnesses who can and will back it up.
I do not recommend these types of shots as mentioned, unless 1 spends a GREAT deal of time shooting at extreme long distances AND the conditions are perfect.
Out on the prairies here, we get number of "perfect" shooting days every year, sometimes 1 is lucky enough to get 1 in hunting season.
I shoot all year, average number of rounds per year of rifle ammo exceeds 20000.
A great deal of my shooting is with my 50 cal rifle at distances over 1 mile, if the deer co-operate this year it is my intent to shoot my deer at 1 mile or further,with my 50. God I am hoping for a calm opening day! :mrgreen:
Alberta Tactical Rifle :
I didn't doubt your achievement.
Merely wanted to know if that was a real fact or just a "possibility" given certain conditions.
I hunted a swamp last year and from the hill in right the middle I would have had the opportunity to make a 1k shot if:
- the caliber would have been adequate.
- the fog , rain or light were all good
- the rifle was set up for the job (target)
- and last but not least if a moose presented the shot.
it takes an accomplished rifleman to make a shot like that.
can I do it? I never tried, so as much as I am willing to try, I will not hail mary at a moose without the right amount of confidence in my skills.
Down here one has to travel over 2 hrs (round trip) for a 100yds range, let alone a 200 one. SW Ontario is severely handicapped for that matter.
What would you suggest for a beginner in long range?
I didn't doubt your achievement.
Merely wanted to know if that was a real fact or just a "possibility" given certain conditions.
I hunted a swamp last year and from the hill in right the middle I would have had the opportunity to make a 1k shot if:
- the caliber would have been adequate.
- the fog , rain or light were all good
- the rifle was set up for the job (target)
- and last but not least if a moose presented the shot.
it takes an accomplished rifleman to make a shot like that.
can I do it? I never tried, so as much as I am willing to try, I will not hail mary at a moose without the right amount of confidence in my skills.
Down here one has to travel over 2 hrs (round trip) for a 100yds range, let alone a 200 one. SW Ontario is severely handicapped for that matter.
What would you suggest for a beginner in long range?
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Being able to hit something at long range is certainly nothing new. With todays superb bullets, barrels, and scopes, the job is made a lot easier. However, it is something you spend a lot of time and money learning to do and do well. the support optics usually exceed the budget of most, let alone the rifle and the practise you need to get proficient.
if interested, there is certainly no shortage of info at www.longrangehunting.com.
one thing you learn when you decide longer shots are what you want, you take surprisingly very few of them. Experience teaches you your limits and hunting within those is the best approach of all.
Jerry
if interested, there is certainly no shortage of info at www.longrangehunting.com.
one thing you learn when you decide longer shots are what you want, you take surprisingly very few of them. Experience teaches you your limits and hunting within those is the best approach of all.
Jerry
- Location
- calgary alberta
Leica LRF 1200 ( several readings) and my rifle is equipped with a 6.5x20 x50 Leupold MK4 scope with a mildot reticle, I was trained at Quantico (1969) on how to use it so do a double check on range the hard way as well. I sight in all my rifles for zero at 100 and use my turrets to adjust for elevation and windage, I have found the Leupold ballistic tapes very handy for keeping this info at hand on each rifle.
The rest of the package was a custom built ( by me) heavy barrel Sako AV with a single set Canjar trigger set at 2 oz on set, essentially an F Class Unlimited match rifle.
About 48 degree F, humidity of about 30%, clear with little or no cloud cover, extremely calm, zero wind from my position to the moose, in both cases, and in both nearing the 16:30 hrs, low mirage factor. In both cases the moose were feeding in alphapha fields, fairly easy to watch what the wind was doing with the grass from me to them.
Norma case, neck turned, inside and out, flash hole deburred, cases are weighed and batched for consistancy, Fed 215 Match primer 61.0 gr IMR 4350 with 160 gr Nosler partition, I run ALL my ammo over a Neco comparator for concentricity. these leave my 30" barrel at 3080 fps at 50 degrees F
ONE , I believe if you can not comfortably be assured of taking only 1 shot, take NONE. I am not arrogant enough to think I am not possible of screwing up a shot, but in both cases had over 30 minutes of time behind the scope to take my shot, distance can be an advantage at times.
Found the moose in each instance within a few feet of where they had been hit, both made it to the freezer and were very tasty.
Found 1 bullet in each carcass, first 1 was a front on shot, bullet found in the spine directly behind the bell, second 1 was also spine shot, broadside shot so center of the hump. Bullet from # weighs 133 grains bullet from #2 127 grains.
Would I do it again, only if the perfect conditions were available again, and since these 2, I have rebarreled my 7mm into a 300 winmag and use 200 grain Wildcat bullets, just to hedge my bets a bit.
As I have mentioned in previous posts, I do not suggest that many hunters try these extreme long shots, I do NOT want to come off as arrogant, I really am not, but have 30 years of 1000 yard competitive shooting experience and I spent a GREAT deal of time at the range, I shoot more ammo every year than most hunters will in their entire life. Not many guys have their very own 2 mile long ( measured and staked ) range. I am not wandering around the bush with a regular hunting rifle, the fact that my hunting rifles are along the lines of F Class match rifles does make it easier .
That all being said it is easier today than ever to successfully pull off a long shot, with the quality of todays optics LRFs and bullets. There still is no substitute for practice of the skill.
Eltorro, I would agree with Boomer that the 7 Rem Mag at 1000 is pretty much at or beyond it limits, and have, as mentioned upgraded caliber wise, (typically I wear out a barrel every 2 years) and gone with a heavier bullet, the 160s my rifle shot extremely well, much better than the 175s I would have preferred to use. More weight means more retained down range velocity and energy. Fog, & rain can drastically alter how a bullet flys, most guys do not realize how bad mirage is over ice and grain fields either for that matter, and doping the wind is a learned art in itself..
My advice to anyone who is wanting to hunt or shoot at the longer ranges is practice throughout the year in different weather conditions at 100 yards until you can consistantly keep a group small ie 1/2 to 3/4 MOA then move out to 200 and repeat the process, then 300 and so on. Most newer shooters want to go to long range too fast. The old adage of walking before running. A great simulation for long range when there is not a long range available is to shoot 22 rimfire at 100 yards and beyond, it is possible to , with a decent 22 rifle to hit popcans at 200 yards, it takes some skill and practice as the 22 is not really a 200 yard caliber, but it will give you some idea of what distance does to trajectory. Moving the target 25 yards at a time will simulate 100 yard increments for high power rifle, and I want to stress SIMULATE. you can tune you breathing and trigger pull skill just as well with rimfire as centerfire, it is just lots cheaper.
Ever since my kids were quite young we have played a game while out hiking ,gopher shooting, or anywhere we can do it, we gestimate distances of livestock and then check it with the LRF, estimate the height of known objects at distance, to help establish the 36" height relation for ranging with mildot reticles.
We also estimate wind in the grass/willows etc across fields then check it with wind speed indicators, an inexpensive 1 can be had at most sailboat supply shops.
Both kids are extremely accomplished shots now, my 15 year old took a great mulie buck last year at 470 yards 1 shot. The work with the 22 for several (10) years has helped him, having the opportunities of custom built rifles to shoot and high end optics has certainly not hindered them either, but I will not allow them to take shots that they are not truly capable of making, I still back them up however just in case of fubar. I too do not subscribe to the hail mary shots. :mrgreen:
I also own a 7mm remy mag, Browning Stainless Stalker with a boss. I have no complaints. Anything I have ever shot at ends up in the freezer!
But also am one to say nothing wrong with 22lr for deer as long as they are in range :lol: I used to be one of those guys looking for the"all around calibre" but I will have to tell you it is all shot placement.period!
But also am one to say nothing wrong with 22lr for deer as long as they are in range :lol: I used to be one of those guys looking for the"all around calibre" but I will have to tell you it is all shot placement.period!
that's true, and I used that load for years. chrony'd 2750 fps out of my 26" tube with the moly CT Partition Gold.
66 grains usually does 3000-3100 fps out of a 24-26" tube. Alliant shows 65 grains as max with the 160 gr. GameKing BTSP. Hodgdon shows a max of 64.0 grs H4831sc with the 162 gr. Interlock BTSP.
Hornady shows only 59.8 grs. H4831sc with the 162 gr. for their max load. that there is one mild load. they show 61.0 grs. of H4831 with the 154 gr. as a max. that is about 6 grains under the real world max in a modern rifle in good shape.
Weak handload data is what handicaps the 7mm Mag and makes it seem like nothung more than a 270 or 30-06.
Work up from below and in slow increments with a chrony helps tell the true story with the 7mm Mag and its potential...
66 grains usually does 3000-3100 fps out of a 24-26" tube. Alliant shows 65 grains as max with the 160 gr. GameKing BTSP. Hodgdon shows a max of 64.0 grs H4831sc with the 162 gr. Interlock BTSP.
Hornady shows only 59.8 grs. H4831sc with the 162 gr. for their max load. that there is one mild load. they show 61.0 grs. of H4831 with the 154 gr. as a max. that is about 6 grains under the real world max in a modern rifle in good shape.
Weak handload data is what handicaps the 7mm Mag and makes it seem like nothung more than a 270 or 30-06.
Work up from below and in slow increments with a chrony helps tell the true story with the 7mm Mag and its potential...
- Location
- WMU247 near Edmonton
I use my 7mm remmag for just about everything, I don't shoot as good as ATR and I would never even try a 1000m shot, However I shoot well enough to take a moose at 400yds with my 7mm using a 175grn bullet, and a very steady rest 
great round that 7mm, however that stupid ruger I'm using needs to be bedded, by the third round the barrel heats up and bulltes start wandering, but it's sighted in cold, its the first shot that counts
great round that 7mm, however that stupid ruger I'm using needs to be bedded, by the third round the barrel heats up and bulltes start wandering, but it's sighted in cold, its the first shot that counts
