- Location
- Calgary, AB
I actually picked up a #1 factory chambered. It is no longer offered though.
7mm STW???
- Thread starter retepnosflow
- Start date
A buddy shoots one, it's a fun little gun. I was tempted by a stainless laminated version. Part of me wanted to cringe, part of me just kept picking it up again. That would be an easy rechamber, plus you could chase lands until the case won't hold the bullet anymore.
- Location
- Calgary, AB
Yeah, mine is a SS laminate. Very nice looking rifle. Got some loads put together and hope to get out to the range soon.
I think I want one, then again I want one of each caliber anyway, but maybe this one before some of the others, haha Guns are like nice cars you can keep them in the garage and take them for a drive when you feel like it, thanks for all the feedback guys.
There is nothing wrong with the 7mm STW, but there is nothing wrong with the 7mm Rem Mag,either.
There really isn't much difference between them, when handloaded. Sure, the STW goes a wee bit faster, but in bullet drop, we aren't talking much.
No difference in "holdover" to 350 yards, and past that, you should use your rangefinder and adjust scope.
Yep, about the same difference as a 375 Ruger to a 375 H&H..........
Now that Winchester is not making brass for the 7STW what would be the next best choice? Any of the Rem 8mm or 7STW brass I bought has always been reluctant to hold a primer after three firings and I am not shooting obscene pressure and have a custom tight speced chamber. The Win brass held up just fine.
what's wrong with Layne Simpson?...or Boddington for that matter...?...I think a lot of guys are jealous of gunwriters and look for anything to rag on them about....but I guess most guys think they have more smarts or experience that most gunwriters...and have a hard time separating the wheat from the chaff.....facts are facts...how they are presented is secondary...
Nosler is making brass for the STW
I'm not jealous of gun writers. Some of them know thier #### and some don't. Layne Simpson has had a good career, and knows alot about guns and cartridges and hunting. However, he comes across as an ass often enough that reading his work is less enjoyable.
There are plenty of writers out there that also know guns, cartridges and hunting, that don't sound pompous, and are a pleasure to read.
The 7mm STW, like all of the STW cartridges, benefitted a lot from Layne Simpson's testing techniques. Layne really like to shoot a 7mm Rem Mag factory load from a 24 inch barrel and compare it to his STW, loaded to the nuts, in a 26 or even a 28 inch barrel. From the beginning, I thought the cartridge was overbore and stupid. I mean, you seldom ran into a shortage of powder capacity with the standard 7MM Remington so, why have more? In any case, I didn't think much of it and for a couple of years I flat refused to get a reamer for it. It finally occured to me that there was money to be made so I got a reamer and I must have made 35 or 40 of the stupid things in the first two years after I bought the reamer. It wasn't too long though that the bloom came off that rose and the demand dropped off. I sold the reamer and have felt better just knowing it isn't there!
I only did a direct comparison one time. In the same barrel (26 inch) I first chambered the 7mm Rem Mag. It would push 160 Sierras to 3180 fps using 4831 powder. This was absolute max in this barrel as the brass would expand about .0005 on the belt (Remington brass). I rechambered to 7STW and the STW would push the same bullet to 3260 also using 4831 and also giving .0005 expansion (also Remington brass). Now, there are other (slower) powders which will do a bit better than 4831 but they will do better in the 7mm Remington as well. I still don't think much of the STW but as I told myself back then, "It's not my money". Actually, it was my money after the customer picked up the rifle so I guess the STW was OK in that respect! Regards, Bill.
I only did a direct comparison one time. In the same barrel (26 inch) I first chambered the 7mm Rem Mag. It would push 160 Sierras to 3180 fps using 4831 powder. This was absolute max in this barrel as the brass would expand about .0005 on the belt (Remington brass). I rechambered to 7STW and the STW would push the same bullet to 3260 also using 4831 and also giving .0005 expansion (also Remington brass). Now, there are other (slower) powders which will do a bit better than 4831 but they will do better in the 7mm Remington as well. I still don't think much of the STW but as I told myself back then, "It's not my money". Actually, it was my money after the customer picked up the rifle so I guess the STW was OK in that respect! Regards, Bill.
My current STW started life as a 24" barrelled Win. Classic All Terrain. It would do 3050 fps with 160s and H4831. Rechambered to STW and shoot 7828 and it does right at 3300. On the third fireing with this brass and they're still tight. Not really needed but it does go faster.
The use of different powders invalidates the comparison. The possibility of different pressure levels invalidates the comparison. As I said, I only did a direct comparison one time but I have quite a bit more anecdotal evidence since many of my customers were happy to pass info along. Those who want to believe the STW is 200-250fps faster, go right ahead. It helps you to justify the conversion. The truth is, it just ain't so except when invalid comparisons are made. This would include virtually all of Layne Simpson's comparisons. The STW is faster. Bigger cartridges are always faster than smaller ones. It just isn't that much faster. Regards, Bill
Not using the optimum powder for each cartridge invalidates the comparison.With the difference in case capacity,a powder that is optimum for the 7mmremmag,will not be optimum for the 7mmstw using the same bullet weight.
Try any other manual.Nosler is extremely conservative with the 7mmstw (and with some of the weatherby cartridges),and very hot with the 7mmremmag.
I was not able to reach the Nosler velocities for the 7mmremmag in any of my three rifles without pressure signs,,but I can reach 3500fps with 140gr bullets in two of my 7mmstw rifles with no pressure signs.
If you really want to see some interesting Nosler data,compare the 165gr loadings for the 300win mag with a 24" barrel,and the 165gr loadings for the 300wby with a 26" barrel.In both the third and Fourth edition of Noslers manual,they reached higher velocities with the 24" 300win mag than with the 26" 300wby.If you were to judge both cartridges by that data,you would have to assume that the 300winmag offers better ballistics than the 300wby,even when the wby has 2" more barrel.How much sense does that make?
Or you can simply compare factory loads.With a 140gr bullet or 160gr bullet in each,the difference is 150fps to 200fps.As well,Federal,and some other companies use data with 24" barrels for both which favors the 7mmrem.
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stubblejumper,
Most powders which are optimum for the STW are also optimum for the 7MM Rem Mag. In general, if the powder being used does not fill the case at maximum charge weight, increasing the capacity of the case will not show all that much improvement.
In the case of the 7mm Rem., a powder like the no longer available H570 would fill the case and still not achieve maximum pressures (except with 175 grain bullets-maybe). Any powder faster than this would be capable of reaching max pressures and, therefor, velocities.
The use of different powders in the two cartridges is tantamount to optimizing the load for one while not doing so for the other. This is exactly the sort of comparisons which have been done with the STW from it's inception.
The use of factory loads is another red herring since the Rem Mag has been downloaded significantly over the years.
The reality is this; no comparison is really valid without the use of a chronograph AND pressure testing equipment and under constant range conditions. Every variable skews the results.
I don't really have an axe to gring here; I just favour factual comparisons and scientific testing methods. Exaggeration of cartridge superiority has been the bain of the shooting enthusiast since the cartridge was invented and it goes on still. Regards, Bill.
Most powders which are optimum for the STW are also optimum for the 7MM Rem Mag. In general, if the powder being used does not fill the case at maximum charge weight, increasing the capacity of the case will not show all that much improvement.
In the case of the 7mm Rem., a powder like the no longer available H570 would fill the case and still not achieve maximum pressures (except with 175 grain bullets-maybe). Any powder faster than this would be capable of reaching max pressures and, therefor, velocities.
The use of different powders in the two cartridges is tantamount to optimizing the load for one while not doing so for the other. This is exactly the sort of comparisons which have been done with the STW from it's inception.
The use of factory loads is another red herring since the Rem Mag has been downloaded significantly over the years.
The reality is this; no comparison is really valid without the use of a chronograph AND pressure testing equipment and under constant range conditions. Every variable skews the results.
I don't really have an axe to gring here; I just favour factual comparisons and scientific testing methods. Exaggeration of cartridge superiority has been the bain of the shooting enthusiast since the cartridge was invented and it goes on still. Regards, Bill.
