7x57 Milsurps?

mmattockx

mmattockx

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I feel the need for a new calibre coming on and I think the 7x57 might be it. Are there any nice shooting milsurps commonly available in this calibre? Even better would be a commonly available Mauser with a bent bolt like the K98 and M-48 models.

Thanks,
Mark
 
The 7x57 is a wonderful ctg, easy to reload and a classic deer round. I've owned 3 of them, incl M700 Rems and a sporterized M98 Mauser.

They were widely used in South and Central America and by Mexico as a military round in various M95 and M98 Mauser types. Spain introduced the 7x57 in the M93 Mauser and the Boers raised hell on the Brits with them in S. Africa more than 100 yrs ago, as did the Spanish with the US in Cuba. The 7x57 is regarded as the father of the modern rimless ctg. I'd love to have a Mexican M1936 rifle. I see the ex-Chilean Steyr M98 rifles being sold in both 7x57 and 7.62.

In 1972 I bought an arsenal re-worked byf 44 M98 re-barreled with a new 7x57 barrel and stamped " Made in West Germany" on the stock. The old Ribtor Sales in Calgary was flogging them for around $40 as I recall. An Army buddy and I both bought one and sporterized them. Mine has been an excellent deer rifle with a Williams bolt handle, Beuhler safety, Uncle Mike's trigger gd with hinged floorplate, and a 4x Redfield scope in a Redfield Jr mount. Not too long ago I saw pics of one of these in un-altered condition on this forum.

A M98 Mauser would be preferred for the stronger action, but lighter loads would be fine in the older M95 types. You can also find semi-auto FN49s which were made for this ctg.
 
7mm Mausers didn't have bent bolts. A Spanish Model 93 or a Mauser Model 95 would be the classic milsurp, if you can find either in decent condition. Both with straight bolts.
Brazil used a modified Gew.98 in 7mm. Also with a straight bolt. The Mexican Mauser had a bent bolt. Wouldn't be easy to find though.
A real prize would be a Venezuelan FN-49 in the chambering. You'd look for a long time and pay a ton of money for one of those though. Be like shooting a .22.
 
Many of the early Mauser contract rifles for Spain and almost every country in South America (minus Argentina) adopted rifles in the 7x57mm Mauser caliber. You can find many of these in unissued condition as well and in their original caliber. Others have been converted by their respective country of service.

Lots to choose from too, the fun never ends!
 
the 7mil Mausers are great rifles to shoot and own.

The cartridge was ahead of its time and AFAIK the only cartridge designed by Paul Mauser.

Mostly Latin American countries that used them (plus Spain).
Lots of Chilean Mausers from the 1912 Steyr contract around right now. Some rebarreled to 7.62 NATO.

Nicest are the M1908 Brazilian IMO.
 
I have a 1908 Brazilian. It may have been unfired when I got it but has been to the range a few times since. A great shooter, finish and workmanship is amazing. They come up on EE regularly. Pick one up at a fair price and enjoy.
 
Old Ranger said:
I have a 1908 Brazilian. It may have been unfired when I got it but has been to the range a few times since. A great shooter, finish and workmanship is amazing. They come up on EE regularly. Pick one up at a fair price and enjoy.
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Same here. I had 3 1908's, one I left original and kept, two I converted to sporters and gave to a couple of buddies for hunting rifles.

Don't worry about the straight bolt, any reasonable gunsmith should be able to turn it down for you.

They make great hunting rifles. I think that the 08 is the best of the 7mm's, and can still be had a a good price.
 
I have and shoot a Remington Rolling Block in 7x57. Barrel just has 7mm stamped on it. I got it a few yrs ago from P&S. He figures it was Mexican. Rarely go to the range without it. Love the ctg.
 
highlander said:
Same here. I had 3 1908's, one I left original and kept, two I converted to sporters and gave to a couple of buddies for hunting rifles.

Don't worry about the straight bolt, any reasonable gunsmith should be able to turn it down for you.

They make great hunting rifles. I think that the 08 is the best of the 7mm's, and can still be had a a good price.
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I would prefer a bent bolt model because I don't want to bubba it and I find the straight bolt handles much clumsier to use. If I can find an already bubba'd one to sporterise, then a bent bolt handle is no problem, usually less than $100 to have done up properly by a 'smith.

avroe said:
What kind of price range do you think is fair these days?
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Good question.


Mark
 
I honestly don't think there were any Mausers made for military purposes that had bent bolts, other than carbines. They are few and far between, not ot mention expensive.

There were European, African and South American rifles built in 7x57. I had a very nice Serbian at one time but another collector talked me out of it. I have never seen another one.

Anything in Very Good or better condition starts at $500 and goes up from there.
Tradex and P&S both have them for sale built on Steyr 1912 actions. They are every bit as good as the Brazilian 1908s or M1935s.

Like any other milsurp, except for the recent Com Bloc imports, condition is everything.

If you're looking to turn one into a cheap sporter, guess again, it won't be cheaper than you can buy a commercial rifle for. A 7-08 is pretty much the same cartridge only loaded to higher pressures.

If you buy a decent milsurp Mauser, matching or not and you just have to have a bent bolt, go to Tradex and buy a spare bolt as well. Take the original bolt and squirrel it away, in the safe so you can find it again, and take the spare bolt to a gunsmith to have the bolt bent to the proper 55 degree angle so you won't bugger the stock.

If you aren't a velocity freak, some of the 93 and 95 rifles are very nice and don't command such a high premium. For some unknown reason, other than the Swede Mausers, anything pre 1898 seems to get passed over. That's really to bad because even though they were weaker actions, they are more than adequate for the pressures related to mil spec 7x57 cartridge with its 175grain round nose bullet.
 
Just another point, the 7x57 come in both mild and high pressure loads. The higher pressure loads are comparable to modern 308 Win, and that makes it plenty powerful enough.

I have a S.A. contract Mauser in mint condition, and all matching. I picked it up for $700, and I wouldn't trade it for double that amount.

They used to be fairly easily had, but now they are as scarce as hens teeth, like all other "good" milsurps. Expect to pay a premium for one, but don't pass one up.

It is easily the best rifle out of the 12 or so rifles I've owned.

5259745054_a931530414_b.jpg


I purchased two brands of 7x57 ammo to test out:

Sellier and Bellot / S&B (made in Czech Republic)
-- for target/range use --
•140 Grain FMJ
•Muzzle Energy : 2525 ft-lbs
•Muzzle Velocity : 2850 fps

Prvi Partizan (made in Serbia)
-- for mid-size game hunting (deer) --
•173 Grain SP
•Muzzle Energy : 2323 ft-lbs
•Muzzle Velocity : 2461 fps

The S&B compares quite favourably to typical 308 Win military FMJ:
•145 Grain FMJ BT
•Muzzle Energy : 2596 ft-lbs
•Muzzle Velocity : 2838 fps
 
The Kurgan, where are you getting the information as to mild and high pressure loads?

Any milsurp loads that were made for the 98s, were loaded to levels that were safe in the earlier 93 and 95 actions.

None of the nations that adopted the 7x57 cartridge, loaded to pressures higher than 45,000psi. Even the Brazilian ammunition, rumored to be the hottest was only loaded to 44,000psi

The modern ammunition you mention may be loaded to those velocities but may well be within the safe pressure limits for milsurps.

There is a common load for the 7x57 in use by a lot of people, 49.0 grains of W760 or H414 over a CCI250 primer, under a 140grain SBT Sierra #1905 = 2900fps at 40,000 psi.

I have no doubt at all that there are higher pressure loads out there, but I would sure like some pressure details. Do you have a link?
 
Over here a Ruger 77 in 7x57 can be had for about £100 at the auctiuons whereas a Medwell and Perret or a .275 Rigby will cause you to dig deep. I sold my Rigby for £2k, a 1920s built on an Obendorf. Still in the cabinet waiting for the buyer to collect!
 
Tim C, you certainly wouldn't pick up a 77 Ruger in 7x57 for that price here, even if it was a complete dog and you were only looking for a receiver to rebuild.

TK, it's all in the powder being used as a propellant behind the bullet.

In your post, you mentioned higher pressures. As for velocities, the older loads used in the 93 and 95 Mausers, used 175 grain bullets witch had much lower velocities than the later 139-140 grain bullets used later. The later rifles also had a slower twist rate.

The 7x57, is loaded commercially to the pressures regulated by SAAMI. These take into account the thousands of milsurp actions rated for those pressures.

If you want 308Win ballistics, get a decent hand loading manual then work up from there. Don't even consider this with a 93 ro 95 Mauser. The load I mentioned before of 49.0 grains of W760 under a 139-140 grain bullet develops 2800fps in a 22in barrel and 2900+ in a 29in barrel. Look it up in the Lyman manual. They claim it produces around 40,000 psi. If you want more, and you have a modern action, start with 7-08 loads and very carefully work your way up. The 7x57 has more case capacity than the 7-08. Just remember the rate of return on powder decreses as capacities increase.
 
The Kurgan said:
Also, how does one achieve 308 or higher velocity levels but keep pressures lower?
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Velocity isn't the absolute be all/end all. Accuracy trumps velocity every time. The 7x57 doesn't give up all that much to the .308 in velocity, and does so at considerably less pressure. Take a look at the Lyman manual for some comparisons.

Many manuals give 2 sets of reloading data for the 7x57, one for the older/weaker M93/95 Mausers, and a second for more strongly built rifles like the M98 Mauser, M700 Rem, M70 Win and Ruger M77. I've done a lot of reloading for the 7x57 and find that the best propellants are W760, H414, IMR 4320 and IMR 4350. I've shot a number of deer with the 7x57 using 139/140gr bullets and a few with the .308 Win, which I am equally fond of, using 150gr bullets. They all fell down about the same. I recall hunting mulies with a couple of friends who were using the then new 7mm STW loaded with 140gr Nosler BTs and 80gr of powder to achieve a MV of 3300fps. I was using my 7x57 loaded with the same bullet and 30 gr less powder to achieve a more sedate MV of 2800fps. My deer died as quickly as theirs with a lot more usable meat.

For shooting with MILSURPs, or any rifle, handloading brings out the best. Many accuracy loads come at considerably less than top velocity and it pays to experiment.
 
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In 1977 SIR was selling new test-fired only 1908 Brazilian contract Mausers with matching serila numbers onthe target and the new bayonet for $159.95.

A new Winchester Model 94 was $169.95
 
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