Good afternoon. I recently picked up a Brno 21, the bore looks good but I'm having problems getting any real velocity out of it. Tried RL19 and IMR4350 so far and can't make 2700 with 140gr Sierra's. the 4350 came close but was flattening primers, also a fair bit past book. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Or maybe it's just goin to be slow, no problem with accuracy. Thanks in advance
7x57
- Thread starter threecentsolution
- Start date
Here's some Quickload data for SAAMI pressure of 51,000psi
Code:
Cartridge : 7 x 57 mm Mauser (SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 140, Sierra SPBT 1905
Useable Case Capaci: 54.724 grain H2O = 3.553 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.070 inch = 77.98 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 50000 psi, or 344 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
142 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 99.9 54.2 3.51 2847 98.0 50000 12019 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 89.2 47.2 3.06 2786 99.6 50000 10723 1.119 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 104.0 51.3 3.33 2765 99.1 49005 10814 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 101.9 52.0 3.37 2764 93.4 50000 11258 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 95.4 46.9 3.04 2757 99.0 50000 10538 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 102.3 54.9 3.55 2755 88.4 50000 11407 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 100.1 51.9 3.36 2750 90.9 50000 11090 1.133 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 93.6 48.8 3.16 2730 96.4 50000 10610 1.131 ! Near Maximum !
[B]Alliant Reloder-19 98.0 49.4 3.20 2718 93.3 50000 10636 1.127 ! Near Maximum ![/B]
Hodgdon H414 88.1 47.0 3.04 2714 95.4 50000 10515 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 88.1 47.0 3.04 2714 95.4 50000 10515 1.137 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 95.7 46.7 3.02 2702 99.4 50000 9722 1.135 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 97.3 47.0 3.05 2698 98.2 50000 10141 1.148 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 99.4 50.7 3.28 2682 90.2 50000 10280 1.127 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 83.7 42.2 2.74 2677 98.8 50000 9826 1.153 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 94.7 46.7 3.03 2655 94.5 50000 9843 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
[B]IMR 4350 92.9 46.6 3.02 2655 94.7 50000 9833 1.144 ! Near Maximum ![/B]
Hodgdon VARGET 86.3 42.1 2.73 2648 98.7 50000 9444 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4955 Enduron 99.7 48.9 3.17 2645 90.7 50000 9920 1.140 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 86.8 41.4 2.68 2642 98.8 50000 9314 1.152 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron 88.6 44.1 2.86 2640 95.3 50000 9662 1.147 ! Near Maximum !Loaded to 60,000psi in a modern rifle :
Code:
Cartridge : 7 x 57 mm Mauser (SAAMI)
Bullet : .284, 140, Sierra SPBT 1905
Useable Case Capaci: 54.724 grain H2O = 3.553 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.070 inch = 77.98 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
111 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 104.0 56.4 3.65 2975 99.2 56981 12391 1.069 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 95.2 50.4 3.26 2955 100.0 60000 11125 1.044 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 101.7 49.9 3.24 2924 99.9 60000 10986 1.055 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 99.8 52.0 3.37 2904 98.4 60000 11236 1.055 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 94.1 50.2 3.25 2892 97.6 60000 11189 1.059 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 94.1 50.2 3.25 2892 97.6 60000 11189 1.059 ! Near Maximum !
[B]Alliant Reloder-19 104.0 52.5 3.40 2886 95.8 59383 11330 1.054 ! Near Maximum ![/B]
Vihtavuori N550 96.2 49.6 3.21 2885 99.4 60000 10981 1.067 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 104.0 50.2 3.25 2869 99.5 60000 10650 1.070 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 104.0 53.9 3.49 2868 93.0 56323 11606 1.077 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 84.6 47.5 3.08 2868 100.0 60000 10357 1.064 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 89.6 48.1 3.12 2867 99.9 60000 10394 1.063 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 101.9 49.7 3.22 2861 100.0 60000 10082 1.060 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 90.0 45.4 2.94 2851 99.8 60000 10365 1.072 ! Near Maximum !
[B]Hodgdon H4350 101.3 50.0 3.24 2831 96.9 60000 10520 1.063 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 99.5 49.9 3.23 2831 97.0 60000 10507 1.063 ! Near Maximum ![/B]
Alliant Reloder-22 104.0 53.0 3.44 2824 94.3 53142 11516 1.113 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 92.9 45.3 2.94 2819 99.7 60000 9996 1.067 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron 95.1 47.4 3.07 2817 97.5 60000 10348 1.065 ! Near Maximum !
I have used a big charge of Norma MRP behind the 140 Partition in my 700 Classic.
Usually, in a 22" barrel, I see 2880 or a bit more, and great accuracy. IMR 4831 is
also a good performer in this case. Dave.
Usually, in a 22" barrel, I see 2880 or a bit more, and great accuracy. IMR 4831 is
also a good performer in this case. Dave.
I use W760 and IMR 4350 for lighter bullets. My loads are very close to todbartell's second post for 60,000 psi. Most loading manuals under rate the 7x57 in deference to older rifles, rightly or wrongly. The Hornady manual (4th edition) has some pretty aggressive data.
Can you post some pics of the fired primers? Perhaps the flattening isn't excessive as you think, or maybe you have a lot of primers with thin cups.
Thank you gentlemen. The RE 22 and 4831 I have so they will be next up, MRP I wish, but unlikely to find too many powder varieties right now so hopefully one of those will work. The barrel is 23.5 I believe and I was getting decent accuracy just not a lot of speed
You may find that there exists a relatively large variation in brass volumes among the various makers. I believe it was member Andy that posted his findings years ago. I had similar findings, unfortunately I cant find my notes on the subject.
The RE#22 /160gr [Speer Grand Slam] load is 50gr in a Win case /Fed mag primer Finn Aagard used this load and claimed 2800fps from his BRNO.All I know is it is one hole accurate in my 21H.Drop a couple grains and work up for your own gun/ use at own risk.
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- Location
- Western Manitoba
I used RL-19 and 150 grain Nosler Partitions - worked up to Nosler's "book" maximum - 51.0 grains They used Winchester brand brass and WLR primers - I used Remington brand brass and Fed 210 primers. I used that at least 20 years for white tail and mule deer hunting. I was still using what was left of the original 200 Remington brass that I purchased when I bought the rifle - primer pockets are still nicely "snug" last time that I re-primed them. Was a Ruger #1 with 22" barrel - I measured with a Shooting Chrony several times over the years - within 10 or 15 fps plus or minus from 2,800 fps - Nosler 9 is reporting 2831 fps with their recipe with a 22" Lilja barrel - so I always thought that my "recipe" was quite close to theirs.
When rifle was new, I bought 140, 150 and 160 Partitions to try - had more enthusiasm, then, I guess - did not really do a "fair" work-up for each - got in my mind that the 150's were "better" and Nosler was showing RL-19 as giving the highest velocity in their tables, so went ahead and worked towards that. Was to be a "deer" rifle. Was replacing my trusted .308 Win that my son decided to "inherit". I had and still have a 338 Win Mag for "bigger" stuff, so the 7x57 was to be for Saskatchewan white-tail and mule deer - I have never fired a shot at black bear or antelope - so, for what I wanted, it worked out pretty nicely, I think.
When rifle was new, I bought 140, 150 and 160 Partitions to try - had more enthusiasm, then, I guess - did not really do a "fair" work-up for each - got in my mind that the 150's were "better" and Nosler was showing RL-19 as giving the highest velocity in their tables, so went ahead and worked towards that. Was to be a "deer" rifle. Was replacing my trusted .308 Win that my son decided to "inherit". I had and still have a 338 Win Mag for "bigger" stuff, so the 7x57 was to be for Saskatchewan white-tail and mule deer - I have never fired a shot at black bear or antelope - so, for what I wanted, it worked out pretty nicely, I think.
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That would be another powder I have and was contemplating, My whitworth 7x57 was easy 150 partition or accubond well up in th2700 and very accurate with 4350 this little one seems to be a bit finicky, but we shall see. Has anyone tried Staball 65 in this cartridge
My son has a Ruger #1 International in 7x57 and we've tried a few things in it. My take on the 7x57 is that it will never be a speed demon, it's not a 7mm Mag. Especially true in the short barrel of the R#1 International.
So, to that end we choose a Hornady ELD-X in 162 grains. The ballistic advantage makes it shoot flat(ish), and the ELD-X is a decent whitetail bullet. My son harvested a eater buck this last season and no complaints on expansion or retained weight.
For hunting, I prefer the newer powders as they are stable, not much temperature variation. To that end, the powder I load with is IMR4451, 46 gr. But I do load longer than the book. My OAL is 3.125 which is still a bit shy of the lands, and it is fully supported in the neck, IIRC. Velocity is around 2550 fps. I measured the PRE and I am near or at MAX. for my rifle. I used Federal brass with a case weight of app 175 grains. Accuracy in R-P brass, 185 gr app, was not as good. Caveat: The bore is somewhat neglected, some pitting but rifling is sharp. This tends to make rifles a bit fussier on loads.
BTW: I bought a Lyman Borecam, it's a real reality check. It's a good idea to clean your rifle bore, minimum a bore snake with some Ballistol. In my son's #1, it takes a few rounds to get the accuracy back after a thorough cleaning.
With lighter bullets I seemed to have decent performance with Varget. Until you get up in bullet weight, powders in the 4350 burn rate are a bit slow for optimum performance.
For cast loads I use a Lyman 287346 GC sized at 285 with SR4759, 20 gr. (a starting load), with decent luck. This load worked well in a somewhat neglected Mauser as well.
As noted above, there are large variations in brass. Weight, internal volume, strength and dimensions. I have some brass that needs a different shellholder.
So, to that end we choose a Hornady ELD-X in 162 grains. The ballistic advantage makes it shoot flat(ish), and the ELD-X is a decent whitetail bullet. My son harvested a eater buck this last season and no complaints on expansion or retained weight.
For hunting, I prefer the newer powders as they are stable, not much temperature variation. To that end, the powder I load with is IMR4451, 46 gr. But I do load longer than the book. My OAL is 3.125 which is still a bit shy of the lands, and it is fully supported in the neck, IIRC. Velocity is around 2550 fps. I measured the PRE and I am near or at MAX. for my rifle. I used Federal brass with a case weight of app 175 grains. Accuracy in R-P brass, 185 gr app, was not as good. Caveat: The bore is somewhat neglected, some pitting but rifling is sharp. This tends to make rifles a bit fussier on loads.
BTW: I bought a Lyman Borecam, it's a real reality check. It's a good idea to clean your rifle bore, minimum a bore snake with some Ballistol. In my son's #1, it takes a few rounds to get the accuracy back after a thorough cleaning.
With lighter bullets I seemed to have decent performance with Varget. Until you get up in bullet weight, powders in the 4350 burn rate are a bit slow for optimum performance.
For cast loads I use a Lyman 287346 GC sized at 285 with SR4759, 20 gr. (a starting load), with decent luck. This load worked well in a somewhat neglected Mauser as well.
As noted above, there are large variations in brass. Weight, internal volume, strength and dimensions. I have some brass that needs a different shellholder.
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
This .....its not a speed demon.
Find a accuracy node for your rifle, unplug the chronograph, go kill shet. You will find the 7x57 kills medium game way above it's station, say out.to 300.. Simple cup n core through premium bullets, frangible long range bullets would be best left for long range calibers.
Doable, with the lighter bullets. https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/7x57mm-mauser/
For the 7mm's I've come to appreciate the heavier bullets, especially the ones with a good ballistic coefficient. Down range energy and trajectory get a bit of a boost.
After settling on a load, and knowing the exact velocity, I plug the numbers into the Hornady calculator and print off the ballistics. I tape it to the box of reloads.
IMHO, the 275 Rigby would be a better chambering, with the rifling leade better suited to the lighter bullets. The Ruger #1 has the advantage of not having to fit ammunition in a short magazine.
