7x61

[Johnn Peterson]

It's just been brought my attention that a US company is selling what appears to be unfired Norma Super 7x61 brass at reasonable prices:

https://ravenrocksprecision.com/.

I'm surprised by this as I had thought that no reloading components could be shipped from the US to Canada without extensive paperwork and considerable expense. Do I have this wrong?

I'm 'assuming' the Norma Super 7x61 brass I have, is actually made by Norma. The brass I have for my 375 CT, was made by a outfit in the U.S.A. by the name of Quality Cartridge.

 

[dan belisle]

I'm curious about forming 7x61 S&H brass from 7 Rem. Mag. cases. It seems to me that some work on the necks of formed cases would be needed because much of what ends up in the neck of the formed 7x61 case would have come from the shoulder of the 7 Rem. Mag. case. When displacing the brass of the parent case, the brass has to go somewhere, and that would be into the neck of the formed case, and this might well produce varying brass thickness, such as an increase in thickness at certain parts of the necks, in the necks of the formed cases. The fix would seem to be to expand the case necks of the newly-formed 7x61 cases with an expander mandrel and then turn the necks to produce consistency of thickness in the neck and to get that thickness to what is desired.

Thoughts?

Lube it well, run it through your 7x61 die, trim, measure your neck dimensions. You may not have to trim the necks at all. Basically you can make 7x61 from any of the standard belted mag cases. As I mentioned earlier, a bunch of my 7x61 brass is made from 264 Win. - dan

 

[Potashminer]

I'm curious about forming 7x61 S&H brass from 7 Rem. Mag. cases. It seems to me that some work on the necks of formed cases would be needed because much of what ends up in the neck of the formed 7x61 case would have come from the shoulder of the 7 Rem. Mag. case. When displacing the brass of the parent case, the brass has to go somewhere, and that would be into the neck of the formed case, and this might well produce varying brass thickness, such as an increase in thickness at certain parts of the necks, in the necks of the formed cases. The fix would seem to be to expand the case necks of the newly-formed 7x61 cases with an expander mandrel and then turn the necks to produce consistency of thickness in the neck and to get that thickness to what is desired.

Thoughts?

I think you have the bolded part correct, but you are assuming that the shoulder portion is thicker than the neck portion - or that there is enough difference to matter within the rifle's chamber with a bullet seated in that re-formed brass. I did not find that to be so - I was thinking I would have to peel neck walls, but I did not have to, for the things to chamber and fire easily. As I recall, bullets slid without resistance (or with minimal resistance) into the fired necks, so that was my clue that the particular rifle chamber neck area was large enough to completely release the bullet - whatever the neck thickness might have been - which I do not recall measuring.

The finished full sized brass had had the expander ball pulled through the undersized neck - so I presumed that the inside dimension was about appropriate for that size bullet (about, but no more than, 0.002" smaller) - so any variance would be on the outer surface of the re-formed neck where a outside neck peeler could get it. I did not have to do that with that rifle and those brass - others may have different experience.

 

[South Pender]

I think you have the bolded part correct, but you are assuming that the shoulder portion is thicker than the neck portion - or that there is enough difference to matter within the rifle's chamber with a bullet seated in that re-formed brass. I did not find that to be so - I was thinking I would have to peel neck walls, but I did not have to, for the things to chamber and fire easily. As I recall, bullets slid without resistance (or with minimal resistance) into the fired necks, so that was my clue that the particular rifle chamber neck area was large enough to completely release the bullet - whatever the neck thickness might have been - which I do not recall measuring.

The finished full sized brass had had the expander ball pulled through the undersized neck - so I presumed that the inside dimension was about appropriate for that size bullet (about, but no more than, 0.002" smaller) - so any variance would be on the outer surface of the re-formed neck where a outside neck peeler could get it. I did not have to do that with that rifle and those brass - others may have different experience.

How was the accuracy using the re-formed brass? I'm not that surprised that this brass chambered properly, as factory chambers are usually cut quite generously. However, I'd be concerned about the uneven neck thickness both within each case and between cases. This would produce varying neck tension of the loaded rounds, and I think this could be expected to produce varying muzzle velocities and to affect accuracy.

 

[Potashminer]

How was the accuracy? I actually do not know - I never fired 5 shot groups from sandbags - but it was for sure accurate enough for the young fellow to take a moose with a single shot - which is what he wanted to be able to do with his GrandPa's old rifle.

There should be a picture below - the young fellow, his moose, his GrandPa's old rifle in which he was using my re-formed brass because he could not find ammo to buy. The mission seemed to be accomplished. No doubt he would lose his a$$ in a target shooting competition - was a LOT of things not done for that - was not the point or the purpose of that task though.

 

[mbogo3]

Functional and fatal........all boxes checked.

 

[Potashminer]

Just to clarify things regarding the old and new 7x61 cases, the headstamps are:

Old: "Norma Re 7x61 S&H"

New: “Norma Super 7x61”.

The old and new cases had nothing whatsoever to do with barrel twist, just an increased capacity of 5 grains for the new cases over the older cases.
Schultz & Larsen rifles in 7x61--older and newer, including those with the faster 1:10 twist--were stamped "7x61 S&H" on their barrels.

If it helps to clarify - here is a picture of the two case head stamps - same case - same re-sizing die - same rifle used - but different volumes on inside of the brass - they hold different amounts of powder.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

How was the accuracy? I actually do not know - I never fired 5 shot groups from sandbags - but it was for sure accurate enough for the young fellow to take a moose with a single shot - which is what he wanted to be able to do with his GrandPa's old rifle.

There should be a picture below - the young fellow, his moose, his GrandPa's old rifle in which he was using my re-formed brass because he could not find ammo to buy. The mission seemed to be accomplished. No doubt he would loose his a$$ in a target shooting competition - was a LOT of things not done for that - was not the point or the purpose of that task though.

View attachment 771639

Nice photo and thanks for sharing. A few years back I used my Schultz & Larsen in 7x61 S&H on my successful Antelope hunt on draw in Alberta, guided by my Daughter & Son In Law. Have a photo but not able to post photo's, sorry.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

If it helps to clarify - here is a picture of the two case head stamps - same case - same re-sizing die - same rifle used - but different volumes on inside of the brass - they hold different amounts of powder.

View attachment 771640

As I was informed, apparently there were a couple of 'things' done, which served to increase the case capacity for the newer Norma Super 7x61. A slight change to the metalurgy to allow for thinner case material along with a change to the interior case shape/profile of the case.

 

[Raton57]

Was a set of dies in one of the auctions maybe the one coming up.

 

[dan belisle]

How was the accuracy using the re-formed brass? I'm not that surprised that this brass chambered properly, as factory chambers are usually cut quite generously. However, I'd be concerned about the uneven neck thickness both within each case and between cases. This would produce varying neck tension of the loaded rounds, and I think this could be expected to produce varying muzzle velocities and to affect accuracy.

I didn't find any real difference between reformed brass and factory brass, in terms of accuracy. Keep in mind that mine is a hunting rifle, and not a target rifle. - dan

 

[woodchopper]

since I started this thread I should give an update

I found in the EE 200 NOS cases Norma Super 7x61 I bought those, checked them for size by just chambering them in the rifle and measured them for length, they got trimmed if required, not many needed to be trimmed.

and for dies I had a 7mmRM seating die that was cut short that worked perfectly to seat the bullets. So cases all loaded Hornady SST bullets, I forget the actual weight and powder load, I think 154grn bullets

Buddy is very happy and the groups are 1 1/2", rifle and ammo went off to their new home in Penticton

 

[dan belisle]

since I started this thread I should give an update

I found in the EE 200 NOS cases Norma Super 7x61 I bought those, checked them for size by just chambering them in the rifle and measured them for length, they got trimmed if required, not many needed to be trimmed.

and for dies I had a 7mmRM seating die that was cut short that worked perfectly to seat the bullets. So cases all loaded Hornady SST bullets, I forget the actual weight and powder load, I think 154grn bullets

Buddy is very happy and the groups are 1 1/2", rifle and ammo went off to their new home in Penticton

Thanks for the update. - dan