870 Jam problem

Revolver Ocelot

Revolver Ocelot

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Hi,

I went shooting at the club, and I was loading my 870 when I was on shell no. 4 I put the shell in but instead of going into the magazine the shell went under the elevator (i.e. the ramp where you put the shells in) and jammed the whole mechanism.

The shell is under the elevator and I tried opening the magazine from the front to dump the shells but that is blocked.:(

Any suggestions?

Thanks.
 
Well, problem solved after I took apart the 870.

I have to say however that the 870 mechanism is flawed in that a shell can get stuck under the elevator if you don't push the shell all the way into the mag tube before the elevator comes down again.

Lousy engineering. I heard that there wasn't this problem with the mossberg because the elevator is always in the up position and therefore shells can't get stuck behind it.
 
Did you try pushing the slide release and racking the forearm with force ?

I've never jammed an 870 so badly I've needed to disassemble yet. Has anyone had this bad of a jam ? Please post so I know what to look for.

When my buddy didn't push the rounds in far enough (he has lightbulb-shaped thumbs) I was able to clear just by depressing the slide release and racking.
 
I too have seen many shooters jam their 870 in this fashion. The Mossberg as mentioned does not suffer from this problem due to the design of its lifter. Not a huge issue in my opinion but something to be mindful of when loading.

TDC
 
You probably didn't push the shell in far enough for the latches to catch.

If your shottie is a newer one, then it should have the FlexTab system which allows you to rack the slide with a shell under the bolt.
 
Revolver Ocelot said:
Well, problem solved after I took apart the 870.

I have to say however that the 870 mechanism is flawed in that a shell can get stuck under the elevator if you don't push the shell all the way into the mag tube before the elevator comes down again.

Lousy engineering. I heard that there wasn't this problem with the mossberg because the elevator is always in the up position and therefore shells can't get stuck behind it.
Click to expand...

Revolver Ocelot: Remington fixed the issue by changing the design of te bolt, rail cuts, and carrier to make the problem a non-issue. Only old 870s and the Norinco shotguns (which are copies of the old 870) suffer from any sort of a jam. On newer 870s it is not an issue.

That problem is known as the 'Remington Jam' and is not an issue with the newer guns that have the 'anti-jam' kit in them. The newer ones have the U-shaped cut on the carrier tha tyou were referring to, older ones do not.
All you have to do to clear the 'jam' is to cycle the action, if the action is locked then press the action release bar and open it up. You might or might not have to use a little force, the older style guns could jam up quite badly to the point you would have to clam the buttstock on the ground to force the action open...I have torn the brass rim unjamming several training rounds on older guns but never not been able to get the gun open, on newer guns I just cycle the action.
Cheers
{OF COURSE FOLLOW ALL THE FIREARM SAFETY RULES WHEN CLEARING THE GUN }
 
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I wasn't aware of the "flex tab" issue. How do you check to see if your gun is of the newer or older variety?

My only current 870 is an early Express model with a magnum receiver back before they started marking them "magnum". It has an M prefixed serial number to indicate the 3" chambering.

What are the odds mine has a flex tab?
 
Claven2 said:
I wasn't aware of the "flex tab" issue. How do you check to see if your gun is of the newer or older variety?

My only current 870 is an early Express model with a magnum receiver back before they started marking them "magnum". It has an M prefixed serial number to indicate the 3" chambering.

What are the odds mine has a flex tab?
Click to expand...
It probably does if it's a 12 gauge. Look at the bottom of the shell lifter. If there is a U-shaped cut in the metal then it has the flex tab.
 
If you look at the raiser of the old 870 vs the newer one you will see the modification they made to prevent this or lessen it. A double feed is possible on the Mossberg but much easier to clear.
 
Claven2 said:
I wasn't aware of the "flex tab" issue. How do you check to see if your gun is of the newer or older variety?
My only current 870 is an early Express model with a magnum receiver back before they started marking them "magnum". It has an M prefixed serial number to indicate the 3" chambering.
What are the odds mine has a flex tab?
Click to expand...

This is what it looks like, note the 'U' shaped cuts on the carrier....the older ones have no cut in the carrier (the 'Remington Jam' was set up for demonstration purposes)

April14pics006.jpg
 
Well I do believe that the remington jam can occur with the new flexitab system (I had an occurence).

That is why you have to be extra careful while loading.
The Mossberg has an advantage over the 870 in that aspect.

I do not agree with badboybeeson. A system well designed is designed so it CAN NOT fail. Errors can happen when you try to load a shotgun at night during a high stress situation. Good systems don't allow user errors.

But then again BBB is sort of a 870 dealer so I question his objectivity on this issue.
 
Ike, could you explain how to clear the jam in the picture you posted ? Was it possible to rack the pump ? In my experience the gun can be locked tight when the magtube is full and a similar jam occurs.
 
RevolverRodger said:
Well I do believe that the remington jam can occur with the new flexitab system (I had an occurence).

That is why you have to be extra careful while loading.
The Mossberg has an advantage over the 870 in that aspect.

I do not agree with badboybeeson. A system well designed is designed so it CAN NOT fail. Errors can happen when you try to load a shotgun at night during a high stress situation. Good systems don't allow user errors.

But then again BBB is sort of a 870 dealer so I question his objectivity on this issue.
Click to expand...

The malfunction CAN occur if the operator fails to push the round into the magazine fully, however it is not a jam but a malfunction since the action does not bind like it did before the upgrade. It is easily cleared without concern by opening the action.

Cheers
 
RevolverRodger said:
Ike, could you explain how to clear the jam in the picture you posted ? Was it possible to rack the pump ? In my experience the gun can be locked tight when the magtube is full and a similar jam occurs.
Click to expand...

To clear I would just cycle the action as per normal and the round would be released and be ready to chamber. I set these up probably 60 times a season and haven't had an improved gun that required significant force to clear, where as I have had to really smash the buttstock onto the ground to clear an older system (remembering to face the ejection port away from face).
The flexi-tab keeps the round from slipping too far back to lock up the action, if it slips far back it may take some effort to open the action but does not disable the gun. In the older system the round slip way back and basically get wedged between the carrier and the bottom of the bolt, requiring a LOT of force to open the action (and as I said earlier it can tear the brass rim of the round as it clears). The newer guns also have a cut-out on the bolt bottom to go along with the flexi-tab carrier.

Cheers
 
Ok, here's another dimension to add to the debate:

Of the main (ie, not totally crappy) blued steel and walnut (and aluminum) conventional pump-action shotguns which gun is better?

-Remington 870
-Mossberg 500/590
-Ithaca M37 3" mag
-Browning/Winchester Model 12 3" mag
-1897 winchester (only made in 2,3/4")
-Browning BPS 3" mag
 
WHY doesn't Remington put the shell lifter in the damn Mossberg-style "up" position?!
I have jammed my 870 a couple times because of this. If you don't give'r enough force into the magazine tube the spring pops it back out and behind the shell lifter. Thankfully if you carry a flathead screwdriver (small one in your pocket) you can take the mag tube and barrel off to get the round out...providing cycling the action does not get it.

PS i've pinched many a finger loading the tube in my 870 Express :D

But my 870 is made in 2006...why doesn't it have the "U" on it? It's an 18" express 7-shot
 
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