Most people using them for the various shooting games are running reduced recoil 2 3/4 shells in any case. Try shooting 40 or 50 3" magnums in a T shirt on a hot summers day. It becomes not fun real quick. But the ejector spring can be changed in about 10 minutes without replacing the rivets if you do it with care, Brownell's sells the tool and I believe has one of their videos about it
870- old vs. new
- Thread starter sixpistons
- Start date
I don't even know if I'd recommend a recent production Police at this point, at least not as it comes out of the box.
My 2003 vintage model was very rough in the chamber, action and even the inside of the mag tube when I got it, enough to seriously impede function.
It's squared away now but you shouldn't have to spend much time and money finishing what's supposed to be a premium offering. If I had known better at the time I would have picked up an early 80s or older model and saved a bunch of money to boot.
My 2003 vintage model was very rough in the chamber, action and even the inside of the mag tube when I got it, enough to seriously impede function.
It's squared away now but you shouldn't have to spend much time and money finishing what's supposed to be a premium offering. If I had known better at the time I would have picked up an early 80s or older model and saved a bunch of money to boot.
I have 3 pump guns, a 1976 870 Wingmaster with a 12.5" barrel, a Mossberg 590 20", and a Mossberg 500 18.5". The 870 is the prettiest and has the smoothest action but the Mossbergs have a better safety, lighter aluminum receiver, and are faster and easier to reload with out the lifter in the way like the 870. My 500 is smooth and the lightest of the 3 but on a tactical shotgun I really want to have mag tube the same length of the barrel. As of now my go to defensive shotgun is my 590 as it is set up with a side saddle, tritium bead, L3 intigrated fore end light, and Hogue 12" LOP stock.
To the original question it you are set on an 870 I would highly recommend an older Wingmaster over a newer 870, I got mine in excellent condition for $275 off the EE and sold the 28" barrel for $150. It is much nicer then my friends 870 Express.
To the original question it you are set on an 870 I would highly recommend an older Wingmaster over a newer 870, I got mine in excellent condition for $275 off the EE and sold the 28" barrel for $150. It is much nicer then my friends 870 Express.
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As a long time Remington fan/owner (about 30 years now) I've put allot of shells through my vintage 11-48s (Remington 870, recoil-operated semis in my opinion) and my 870 pumps...young and old. My most recent purchase was a new rifle-sighted, 870P with the plan of using it as a platform for everything. Bought a 28" VR barrel for hunting/clays, just bought a 21" VR turkey barrel, added a set of 50s-era walnut furniture to it (see below)....just having allot of fun with the thing. However, since I own a 1968 Wingmaster...and a 2011 Express as well, I think I have some frame of reference for the advice I'd give the OP~I don't think you're getting a BETTER gun if you go 870P vs. an old Wingmaster. Yes, you get 3" capability...a pretty tough finish...but for my purposes, a 2-3/4" Wingmaster would have served me just as well...and maybe saved me some $ in the process. Yes, you can sure overspend on 870 Wingmasters and component parts and end-up spending as much/more than you might on a Police. But, the opposite is true too. The police is a great gun, but not better than a Wingmaster if you ask me.
At a recent 3-Gun event, my wife was beaten up by my 590A1 shooting 140 rds of factory 2-3/4" - 1-1/8 oz. bird shot loads. It was equipped with a MagPul stock of the right length for her - i.e. too short for me. I rapped my nose a few times on my thumb.
We just ordered her an 870 Tactical in 20 ga from Wanstalls. If it turns out to need a little smoothing, so be it. I toyed with the idea of getting her an older one and the after market parts but the price was too good for the good-to-go model.
In CAS, she shoots a Win '97 with my 7/8 oz. handloads, the equivalent of a factory 20 ga load. Everything goes down and she hits the birds as well.
Years ago in a 'Sporting Clays" magazine, I read an article by a US shooter that went to a Brit shooting school - Holland & Holland, IIRC. He leaned to shoot the British way and had a great time. He was astounded to learn that he was busting everything they threw at him with 12 ga 2-1/2" 3/4 oz. loads!
Commenting on this to his instructor, he was informed - "It's only you Americans that think you need 1-1/8 oz. of shot to break a clay bird. We've been at this long enough to know otherwise."
It became the standard in American trap to shoot 1-1/8 oz. loads for the sake of the longer shot column, the theory being that this would give the shooter more of an opportunity to break the bird than a shorter column.
I'm just the messenger ......
We just ordered her an 870 Tactical in 20 ga from Wanstalls. If it turns out to need a little smoothing, so be it. I toyed with the idea of getting her an older one and the after market parts but the price was too good for the good-to-go model.
In CAS, she shoots a Win '97 with my 7/8 oz. handloads, the equivalent of a factory 20 ga load. Everything goes down and she hits the birds as well.
Years ago in a 'Sporting Clays" magazine, I read an article by a US shooter that went to a Brit shooting school - Holland & Holland, IIRC. He leaned to shoot the British way and had a great time. He was astounded to learn that he was busting everything they threw at him with 12 ga 2-1/2" 3/4 oz. loads!
Commenting on this to his instructor, he was informed - "It's only you Americans that think you need 1-1/8 oz. of shot to break a clay bird. We've been at this long enough to know otherwise."
It became the standard in American trap to shoot 1-1/8 oz. loads for the sake of the longer shot column, the theory being that this would give the shooter more of an opportunity to break the bird than a shorter column.
I'm just the messenger ......
I found a nice used 870 Wingmaster on the EE for $325, is not pretty but it's a tactical build not a beautiful sporting clays gun.
Actually in my opinion is not any worse looking than a brand new Express model.
I did add about $100 worth of upgrades from S&J Hardware (which I would have done to any model Wingmaster or Express) but at least I have a metal trigger group.
It's a lot of fun but heavy when out hiking or fixing fence in the valley.
Perhaps the greatest pleasure is to have a 12-1/2" barreled shotgun (with no added legal burden) and tease my American family and friends that "I don't know if I could live in place with such draconian gun laws like you do"
Actually in my opinion is not any worse looking than a brand new Express model.
I did add about $100 worth of upgrades from S&J Hardware (which I would have done to any model Wingmaster or Express) but at least I have a metal trigger group.
It's a lot of fun but heavy when out hiking or fixing fence in the valley.
Perhaps the greatest pleasure is to have a 12-1/2" barreled shotgun (with no added legal burden) and tease my American family and friends that "I don't know if I could live in place with such draconian gun laws like you do"
Interesting observation .... no such thing as a "tactical" anything .... care to 'splain? On second thought, don't bother. Anyone who can't distinguish between a Sporting Clays O/U and a pump shotgun with extended mag tube has nothing to add to the original comment.
We bought my wife the 20 ga TACTICAL model. Comes with extended mag tube, so no dimples/bumps in the tube. It's matte black, has black polymer furniture and is designed for 3-Gun matches.
Ergo - the Tactical appellation.
I dunno, I think it depends on the gun and rounds. I've fired enough 3" out of the old school wingmaster that was made for 2-3/4" and hasn't had the ejector spring modified, and it works fine (obviously with a 3" chamber barrel).... most of the time. There was one slug that didn't eject, and I had to finagle it out, but otherwise, they all seemed to come out. I rack the action pretty hard though, I had one or two jam up when I bltch-racked it.
I didn't want to bother getting the spring changed yet, mostly because the only guy I found to do it wanted 150 bucks to do it (no way)... I'll buy the parts from brownells myself, with tools, for less than that, and be able to do it on other ones too.
- Location
- Southern ontario
The express is the biggest pile of garbage ive ever owned how ####ing hard would it be to smooth out the choppy ass machining marks all over the reciever and the plastic trigger group is a joke overall not worth the 400$ id go norinco i instead
The Express, even with it's various warts, is still a real 870. I'd take one over the finest Norinco ever made.
So would I.. I don't really understand where these people are finding these seriously #### 870's...
I have an Express, and I bought it like 2 years ago.. And it's smoother than a lot of shotguns I've handled and feels way more solid.
- Location
- Southern ontario
Mine looked like it was machined with a woodchipper
Yes, the receivers are rough and the finish is a joke...they rust if you even look at them.
But it's what you get at the price point.
The thing I truly hate is the dimples on the mag tube....getting one that has a factory extension gets around that nicely.
But it's what you get at the price point.
The thing I truly hate is the dimples on the mag tube....getting one that has a factory extension gets around that nicely.
Like many people, I don't like rust. A gun that readily rusts is something of an issue. For that and other reasons, I've bought a number of higher end 870's over the years than the Express model.
