870 Wingmaster lifter not working?????

fat tony

fat tony

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I shot my 870 Wingmaster today with Winchester 1 oz slugs X 2-3/4", it would not feed them from the magazine reliably, I included a pic to illustrate what was happening, the lifter is not presenting the shell at the correct position and angle to get the shell in the chamber properly, the bottom of the mouth of the shell catches on the breech face. Oddly enough, I remembered to try working the action with the shotgun inverted and it chambered slick as can be. :confused:

DSC00938.jpg
 
Is there a problem with your extractor? Why is the shell not sitting flat on the lifter?

If the shell sat flat on the lifter, it would be in a better line to enter the chamber.
 
My Wingmaster's shell lifter lifts quite a bit higher than yours.

Remove the trigger group and inspect it closely. Is it clean and free of debris? Is anything bent? Is there anything inside the receiver that may be dragging or hanging up the lifter? How old is your Wingmaster? Possibly worn parts?
 
Ike said:
That looks like the carrier dog timing issue.

Added: We had a few from the early 90s with that problem.
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Need more info, :D, from my side, the right shell latch is just held in there by the trigger group, it just fell out one day, the extractor looks like someone ground on it. :confused:

easy said:
Is it possible you just need to be more aggressive/assertive cycling the action?
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No.

I am going to switch trigger groups around to narrow it down tomorrow. -this shotgun is around 30 years old, and except for a few scratches and a bit of handling wear, it looks like it's in good shape, it works fine if you single load it too.
 
fat tony said:
... the right shell latch is just held in there by the trigger group, it just fell out one day, the extractor looks like someone ground on it. :confused:
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The side of the trigger group plate will hold the shell latch in place somewhat if the shell latch is not staked in, but it may be bent and the carrier dog could be hanging up on that shell latch and not allowing the carrier to elevate completely. Is the shell latch bent?

Look to see if the shell latch is sticking out above its channel while the trigger group is in the receiver.

Maybe you should consider a new extractor as well. It is an old gun.
 
Check the carrier dog spring and the plunger. Also see if the elevator/lifter is not grinding or stuck on anything as it moves up.
 
easy said:
Why don't you post here for all of us to learn. Especially the "carrier dog timing issue".
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Basically (as I have been told by those more knowledgeable than I) either the carrier dog spring, or the carrier dog itself is worn and not lifting the carrier up high enough causing the round to present too low.

We had two sequentiallly numbered Police models that had the problem, the gunsmith tried to replace the spring first without success, then we had the carrier/dog assembly replced and there has never been a problem since.

A local instructor also had two 870s of the same vintage with the same issue.
 
Tony it sounds like a good time to sned your gun to Casey at Tacord for some TLC. Coincidentally my WM had the right rail loosen up as well over winter, it's going in shortly.
 
So, is the carrier dog spring toast, or what parts are you ordering for the fix?

If you order an extractor, make sure it's a tool steel one, not an MIM part.

You should find a way to stake that latch in place too.
 
fat tony said:
I suspect it is, the carrier dog may be worn, so I am ordering one of them as well as the carrier dog pin, and a follower. I guess I will get the staking done at some point as well. :p
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You have what they call "stub bottom chamber"

1/ check condition of carrier dog where it interfaces with the slide. (the slide is what the breech bolt sits on top of)

2/ if OK, replace carrier dog spring with the stronger "black" coloured one. This is the one that is used on the 870P.

3/ Carrier may need to be bent slightly up. DO NOT attempt this unless you know how to do it. Call me and I can explain it. OR replace the carrier.

No one replaces the dog only as I have never seen one that is worn.

Casey
 
ARWEN ACE said:
You have what they call "stub bottom chamber"

1/ check condition of carrier dog where it interfaces with the slide. (the slide is what the breech bolt sits on top of)

2/ if OK, replace carrier dog spring with the stronger "black" coloured one. This is the one that is used on the 870P.

3/ Carrier may need to be bent slightly up. DO NOT attempt this unless you know how to do it. Call me and I can explain it. OR replace the carrier.

No one replaces the dog only as I have never seen one that is worn.

Casey
Click to expand...

OK, so it is actually the carrier that is failing rather than the carrier dog? That makes sense, thanks for clarifying that.
You should come to BC and offer the 870 armourers course :)
Cheers
 
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