8mm Mauser 198 FMJ Load data
- Thread starter agentcq
- Start date
Barnes, in COTW-6, gives 45 grains of 3031 at 2420 ft per second for the 200-grain SP slug.
Original military performance for the 196 JsS loading was about 2560.
Remember, the JsS load was originally the Anti-Tank loading for the cartridge and was restricted to machine-gun use. The locking system in a Maxim Gun weighs over a POUND as compared to the under-one-ounce weight of the lugs of a `98k.
If it were my rifle, I think I would be loading with the original WW1 load: a 154-grain flatbase at 2880 ft per second from a 29-inch barrel. From a 23-inch tube, that means about 2600, which is just a hair under the .30-06`s 2700 original MV. You gain some pressure advantage from the bigger bore, but no sense pushing things too far in a 70-to-116-year-old rifle.
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Original military performance for the 196 JsS loading was about 2560.
Remember, the JsS load was originally the Anti-Tank loading for the cartridge and was restricted to machine-gun use. The locking system in a Maxim Gun weighs over a POUND as compared to the under-one-ounce weight of the lugs of a `98k.
If it were my rifle, I think I would be loading with the original WW1 load: a 154-grain flatbase at 2880 ft per second from a 29-inch barrel. From a 23-inch tube, that means about 2600, which is just a hair under the .30-06`s 2700 original MV. You gain some pressure advantage from the bigger bore, but no sense pushing things too far in a 70-to-116-year-old rifle.
.
From Loaddata.com
8x57mm Mauser (Hodgdon Data) Reloading Data
Printable Version
Load Image
Warning! Notes: case: Remington; barrel length: 24"; twist: 1:9.5"; trim length: 2.230"; primer: Remington 9 1/2; bullet diam.: .323"; NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
200 Speer SP Hodgdon H-4350 49.0 2,276
Remarks: starting load; COL: 2.970"; 35,900 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon H-4350 54.0 2,522
Remarks: compressed load; maximum load; COL: 2.970"; 44,800 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon H-414 45.0 2,229
Remarks: starting load; COL: 2.970"; 36,900 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon H-414 50.0 2,475
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.970"; 47,300 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon Varget 40.5 2,183
Remarks: starting load; COL: 2.970"; 36,900 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon Varget 47.5 2,511
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.970"; 49,100 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon H-4895 38.0 2,240
Remarks: starting load; COL: 2.970"; 36,800 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon H-4895 45.4 2,539
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.970"; 49,200 cup
8x57mm Select Handloads Reloading Data
195 Hornady Spire Point Vihtavuori VV-N150 46.0 2250
195 Hornady Spire Point Alliant RL-15 47.0 2445
195 Hornady Spire Point Hodgdon Varget 47.0 2448
195 Hornady Spire Point Winchester W-748 48.0 2514
200 Nosler Partition IMR IMR-4350 50.5 2207
200 Nosler Partition Vihtavuori VV-N150 43.0 2028
200 Nosler Partition Vihtavuori VV-N150 48.0 2386
200 Sierra MatchKing IMR IMR-4350 46.0 1971
200 Sierra MatchKing Vihtavuori VV-N150 46.0 2067
200 Sierra MatchKing Norma N-203-B 45.0 2339
8x57mm German (WWII Military Rifle Loads) Reloading Data
Printable Version
Load Image
Warning! Notes: All chronograph figures taken at approximately 6 feet from the muzzle using an Oehler Model 35P. Five shots per string were fired. Remington brass used and Winchester standard Large Rifle primers. (Handloader Issue #254 - August, 2008)
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)
195 Hornady Spire Point Hodgdon Varget 48.0 2491
Remarks: rifle: VZ24; barrel length (inches): 24
200 hollowpoint boat-tail Hodgdon Varget 48.0 2476
Remarks: rifle: VZ24; barrel length (inches): 24
My regular load is Hornady 195 SP with 47.5 gr Varget.
Any particular powder you are hoping to use other than these listed above?
8x57mm Mauser (Hodgdon Data) Reloading Data
Printable Version
Load Image
Warning! Notes: case: Remington; barrel length: 24"; twist: 1:9.5"; trim length: 2.230"; primer: Remington 9 1/2; bullet diam.: .323"; NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
200 Speer SP Hodgdon H-4350 49.0 2,276
Remarks: starting load; COL: 2.970"; 35,900 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon H-4350 54.0 2,522
Remarks: compressed load; maximum load; COL: 2.970"; 44,800 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon H-414 45.0 2,229
Remarks: starting load; COL: 2.970"; 36,900 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon H-414 50.0 2,475
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.970"; 47,300 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon Varget 40.5 2,183
Remarks: starting load; COL: 2.970"; 36,900 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon Varget 47.5 2,511
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.970"; 49,100 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon H-4895 38.0 2,240
Remarks: starting load; COL: 2.970"; 36,800 cup
200 Speer SP Hodgdon H-4895 45.4 2,539
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.970"; 49,200 cup
8x57mm Select Handloads Reloading Data
195 Hornady Spire Point Vihtavuori VV-N150 46.0 2250
195 Hornady Spire Point Alliant RL-15 47.0 2445
195 Hornady Spire Point Hodgdon Varget 47.0 2448
195 Hornady Spire Point Winchester W-748 48.0 2514
200 Nosler Partition IMR IMR-4350 50.5 2207
200 Nosler Partition Vihtavuori VV-N150 43.0 2028
200 Nosler Partition Vihtavuori VV-N150 48.0 2386
200 Sierra MatchKing IMR IMR-4350 46.0 1971
200 Sierra MatchKing Vihtavuori VV-N150 46.0 2067
200 Sierra MatchKing Norma N-203-B 45.0 2339
8x57mm German (WWII Military Rifle Loads) Reloading Data
Printable Version
Load Image
Warning! Notes: All chronograph figures taken at approximately 6 feet from the muzzle using an Oehler Model 35P. Five shots per string were fired. Remington brass used and Winchester standard Large Rifle primers. (Handloader Issue #254 - August, 2008)
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS)
195 Hornady Spire Point Hodgdon Varget 48.0 2491
Remarks: rifle: VZ24; barrel length (inches): 24
200 hollowpoint boat-tail Hodgdon Varget 48.0 2476
Remarks: rifle: VZ24; barrel length (inches): 24
My regular load is Hornady 195 SP with 47.5 gr Varget.
Any particular powder you are hoping to use other than these listed above?
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W.B. Smith's, Small Arms of the World, the earlier versions, under the Czech section gives a ballistic chart on using the light ball in a 24 inch barrel.
The heavy ball is faster after about 500 or 600 yards.
The heavy ball was developed for heavy machine guns in answer to the French Ball D, which would out range the German light ball. Groups of machine guns were used for barrages at ranges up to and beyond 4,000 yards.
The German 1888 rifling was a copy of the original French Label rifling, and they played catch up on rifling and bullets, until WW 1.
The Americans switched from a 150 grain bullet to a 172 grain bullet to increase the lethal range of their machine guns as well.
The 13mm round was the anti-tank round of WW 1.
The heavy ball is faster after about 500 or 600 yards.
The heavy ball was developed for heavy machine guns in answer to the French Ball D, which would out range the German light ball. Groups of machine guns were used for barrages at ranges up to and beyond 4,000 yards.
The German 1888 rifling was a copy of the original French Label rifling, and they played catch up on rifling and bullets, until WW 1.
The Americans switched from a 150 grain bullet to a 172 grain bullet to increase the lethal range of their machine guns as well.
The 13mm round was the anti-tank round of WW 1.
Tanks first made themselves known on September 15, 1916 at Flers-Courcelette.
The Mauser TuF 13.2mm rifle came out in mid-1918.
Between those dates, the MG section with the heavy ball ammo was the Tank defence.
.
The Mauser TuF 13.2mm rifle came out in mid-1918.
Between those dates, the MG section with the heavy ball ammo was the Tank defence.
.
Turkish bullets are the correct JS type: 154 grains flatbase.
The powder is a flake-type copied from the German WWI powder.
BEST thing to do with this ammo is pull it down and reload into freshly-primed Boxer-type casings. You absolutely will not BELIEVE the accuracy you can get from this stuff in a good rifle, off a rest. With fresh primers, it is the most accurate milsurp ammo I have ever encountered.
The Turkish primers are corrosive, Berdan and dodgy from being in storage far too long. This is too bad, because the brass is beautiful; it must have been truly awesome stuff when it was made.
Being a copy of the German WWI loading, made on German machinery, it will copy precisely the original performance: 154-gain bullet at 2880 ft/sec out of a 29-inch barrel. Yes: hotter than a .30-'06 of the same period, but please don't tell the Americans.
.
The powder is a flake-type copied from the German WWI powder.
BEST thing to do with this ammo is pull it down and reload into freshly-primed Boxer-type casings. You absolutely will not BELIEVE the accuracy you can get from this stuff in a good rifle, off a rest. With fresh primers, it is the most accurate milsurp ammo I have ever encountered.
The Turkish primers are corrosive, Berdan and dodgy from being in storage far too long. This is too bad, because the brass is beautiful; it must have been truly awesome stuff when it was made.
Being a copy of the German WWI loading, made on German machinery, it will copy precisely the original performance: 154-gain bullet at 2880 ft/sec out of a 29-inch barrel. Yes: hotter than a .30-'06 of the same period, but please don't tell the Americans.
.
The German s cartridge ( 9.8 grams ), was adopted by Prussia on April 3, 1903.
The German armour piercing cartridge of WW 1 was the S.m.K. cartridge.
( s with core ), a steel core covered with lead under a jacket of cast sheet iron and weighted 11.5 grams.
The S.m.K was limited to armoured targets and aircraft because of limited production and was issued to good and reliable marksmen who were instructed to bury or destroy their ammunition in case of capture.
The S.m.K. round could pierce 4.5mm shields up to 1400 meters. The type snipers used.
In August of 1918, shortly before the war ended, ammunition with a 12.8 gram pointed bullet ( the sS cartridge ) was adopted.
Also in 1916, steel cases, galvanized with a copper wash was adopted for rifle cartridges cases to save brass.
S.m.K. cartridge mv = 815 mps
S cartridge mv = 895 mps
At 300 meters velocity = 649 mps
At 700 meters velocity = 394 mps
sS cartridge muzzle velocity = 785 mps
at 300 meters velocity = 642 mps
at 700 meters velocity = 481 mps
The preceding is from “German Military Rifles and Machine Pistols 1871 to 1975” , by Hans Dieter Gotz.
Originally published in 1985 as “Die deutschen Militargeweher und Maschinenpistolen 1871 – 1975 “, Motorbuch Verlag, Stuttgart,
The German armour piercing cartridge of WW 1 was the S.m.K. cartridge.
( s with core ), a steel core covered with lead under a jacket of cast sheet iron and weighted 11.5 grams.
The S.m.K was limited to armoured targets and aircraft because of limited production and was issued to good and reliable marksmen who were instructed to bury or destroy their ammunition in case of capture.
The S.m.K. round could pierce 4.5mm shields up to 1400 meters. The type snipers used.
In August of 1918, shortly before the war ended, ammunition with a 12.8 gram pointed bullet ( the sS cartridge ) was adopted.
Also in 1916, steel cases, galvanized with a copper wash was adopted for rifle cartridges cases to save brass.
S.m.K. cartridge mv = 815 mps
S cartridge mv = 895 mps
At 300 meters velocity = 649 mps
At 700 meters velocity = 394 mps
sS cartridge muzzle velocity = 785 mps
at 300 meters velocity = 642 mps
at 700 meters velocity = 481 mps
The preceding is from “German Military Rifles and Machine Pistols 1871 to 1975” , by Hans Dieter Gotz.
Originally published in 1985 as “Die deutschen Militargeweher und Maschinenpistolen 1871 – 1975 “, Motorbuch Verlag, Stuttgart,
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MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Was the standard WWII load not a 198gr boat tailed bullet at just under 2500ft/sec from a 24" barrel?
My understanding is that they(Germany) finally standardized on the the 198gr by the late 1930's after going back and forth between the the World wars once they developed the unit tactics built around the light air cooled MG crews instead of around the riflemen.
Doesn't make any sense to have 90% (±) of your ammo 198gr for the MG's and 10% lighter bullets for the rifleman.
Other countries using Mausers decided for themselves what they wanted to use.
Doesn't make any sense to have 90% (±) of your ammo 198gr for the MG's and 10% lighter bullets for the rifleman.
Other countries using Mausers decided for themselves what they wanted to use.
