A lot of those surplus Portuguese contract rifles never made it to Portugal, because of shortages with the Wermacht.
They were issued to German troops instead.
They're easily identified by the Waffenampt eagles stamped on the receivers.
8x57 JS ( 8MM Mauser) hunting and adventures!
- Thread starter dgradinaru
- Start date
They were issued to German troops instead.
They're easily identified by the Waffenampt eagles stamped on the receivers.
Same as the 9.3X62, the 8X57 is not a favorite North American round, in fact I remember when a friend bought a Swiss Arms 9.3X62 about 30 years ago, there was not a lot of data out there for it at the time, yet it is starting to become very popular now.
I think the 8X57 is a fantastic cartridge, there are a couple of fellas that shoot them at our club and one guy has taken his all the way out to 1,000 meters on the steel.
After WW2, a lot of the 8mm Mausers were re-chambered to 8mm/06 because of brass availability, I have worked up loads for a few of them, an that is another great 8mm cartridge, although the standard 8mm Mauser is no slouch at all!.
Cat
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
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- British Columbia
Agreed, the 9.3x62 is definitely gaining popularity, also one of my favorite's. Surprisingly in almost the last two decades I've observed the 8x57 is also hanging in there with more options of ammunition and modern rifles than ever, at least in Canada. I've seen some of the lists from one distributor alone and there was a generous amount of CZ 600's in 8x57 coming into the country. With out demand, I don't think they'd bring them in like that. Not to mention the previous CZ's like the 550 and 557's. Prophet river has also brought in a good amount of 8x57's by Tikka and Sako in the last few years. Sauer and Anschutz are other ones that come to mind. Then of course the abundant flood of Husqvarna's, Zastava's, and plethora of surplus rifles that need to be fed.
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
Those Norma bullet's are one of the best all around 8mm bullets. Great expansion and weight retention. I've also had good luck with the older dual core tipped norma's 196gr with the yellow tips. At one of the local gun shows I came across several boxes of old stock RNSP factory ammo, great velocity at 2550 fps out of my 20 inch barrel and sub moa. That ammo is probably pushing 40+ years old.
Well I have been really enjoying 2 hunting rifles in 7x57 I bought. Maybe I better dig out my 8x57 hunting rig and play again!
I have a pile of old 170 Hornady Interlocks. Should have good results on game id think around 2650fps. Haven't tried them yet though!
Have a box of barnes too...haven't bothered yet as I have to many interlocks
I have a pile of old 170 Hornady Interlocks. Should have good results on game id think around 2650fps. Haven't tried them yet though!
Have a box of barnes too...haven't bothered yet as I have to many interlocks
I think also the sammi pressure for the North American 8x57 ammo was quite low and the cartridge was more like a 30-30 than a true 8x57…
I think now with euro ammo available and reloading data that are more realistic pressure wise people have realized the potential of the round!
Daniel:
Re the 196 gr. SPCE
Was that factory ammunition or handloads? If the latter, would you mind telling us where you got them?
Thanks,
Jim
Re the 196 gr. SPCE
Was that factory ammunition or handloads? If the latter, would you mind telling us where you got them?
Thanks,
Jim
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
Factory S&B. That load shoots excellent 1/2-3/4" in virtually every 8x57 I've tried. Great value especially if you find that ammo on sale from SFRC. I think all in it was about 35$ a box after free shipping and the discount. I've recovered two bullets, one from a mule buck my old man shot around 75-80 yards and another from my brother in-law's bull moose that he shot at 240 yards.
SPCE recovered from mule buck- 72 percent weight retention.
Recovered from a bull moose- 85 percent weight retention.
It did have a very small following, but NA manufacturers turned their noses up at anything not made in Canada/US.
Also, the 8x57JS was the "preferred" cartridge of their favorite enemy since the late 1800s, and mainstream media propaganda gave it a bad rap, similar to the bad rap they gave the 6.5 Carcano and 6.5 Japanese rounds.
It didn't help that there were several different 8mm type rounds in use around the world, with diameters from .315-.340.
Many very fine sporters were built on several different actions, from single shot and doubles to bolt action repeaters and lever actions, labeled as 32 caliber and they had .318 bores.
The 8x57, both in J or JS diameters, was pretty much the 30-06 of most of Europe and even Africa.
That's another cartridge I've had a long term affair with. 7x57 Mauser. Excellent cartridge.
It will do anything the 8x57 will do IMHO.
7X57 factory ammo, just like the 8x57, is loaded light in NA, in deference to the older, less safe actions they were loaded in, and with the 8mm, because people didn't know the bore diameters of their rifles, and used .323 bullets in .318 bores.
In the rest of the world, shooters are expected to know the difference by the markings on the boxes of commercial ammo and knowing the bore diameter of their rifles.
Modern actions such as the 98 Mauser or commercial actions, like Winchester/Remington/Tikka, handle pressures much better, and can be loaded to much higher velocities.
Brazil settled on a load for their rifles, both for the 95 and 98 Mausers that pushed a 139 grain, fmj bullet to 2900fps from their 29 in barreled rifles, in equatorial heat, safely with a ball type powder very similar to W760.
The Lyman manuals list the load - from a pressure test, 24in bbl, 49.0 W760, 139 sp, at 2720fps, generating 39,700 cup, which is safe in 95 actions.
Lyman lists other loads without pressure readings, which were tested in 95 actions with 29in bbls at 2898fps, using H380.
I should have started with it instead of 8x57! But variety is fun.
Launching a 7mm 150 partition around 2830fps from an FN commercial sporting rifle. I had the loads in my rem700 at 2920 or so with decent accuracy but decided that was probably a bit Spicey. Probably hard on brass too.
Depending on the powder you're using to get those velocities, those cases should last a long time, especially if you only partially neck resize.
Those 150 grain partitions are not usually tack drivers, but definitely good enough for hunting right out to the 300-400 yards I'm willing to shoot under excellent and well rested conditions.
I anneal my cases after 4-5 shots, depending on the manufacturer of the cases, or when they become obviously hard.
I've noticed over the past 20 years that there can be some serious issues with brass composition.
Commercial loaders are always trying to keep their costs down, and quality sometimes suffers.
Some brands are no longer being made in-house but contracted out to the lowest bidder.
This has given a couple of these companies a bad reputation.
I now stick with Norma, Nosler, and Remington brass if it's available.
Some folks even have bad issues with these, but I've found they last a long time, for the conditions I shoot.
Those 150 grain partitions are not usually tack drivers, but definitely good enough for hunting right out to the 300-400 yards I'm willing to shoot under excellent and well rested conditions.
I anneal my cases after 4-5 shots, depending on the manufacturer of the cases, or when they become obviously hard.
I've noticed over the past 20 years that there can be some serious issues with brass composition.
Commercial loaders are always trying to keep their costs down, and quality sometimes suffers.
Some brands are no longer being made in-house but contracted out to the lowest bidder.
This has given a couple of these companies a bad reputation.
I now stick with Norma, Nosler, and Remington brass if it's available.
Some folks even have bad issues with these, but I've found they last a long time, for the conditions I shoot.
H4350. I do neck size for my yard range brass. Hunting stuff I keep new or FL once fired. Have a pile of ppu, RP and herters.
The ballistic tips I use for practice seem a bit more accurate. But not sure how they perform on game...I dont imagine any worse than other cup and core. But from 250 yards with a rest (furthest I can lay prone and see my targets) they will all keep in a 5x5 square. Thats good enough for me.
Id need a good rest to feel comfortable in the field shooting game at 250 to 300y. Prefer to ninja in closer...
Herter's brass was excellent, made by Norma back in the 90s.
I don't know who they get to produce their brass cases now. They were supposedly making it themselves, but I haven't purchased any for over 35 years.
Using IMR4350 to get 2830 fps is definitely a higher pressure load than shown in most manuals, but in your rifle, it's not excessive or close to maximum.
I'm not a fan of PPU brass, but as often as not these days, beggars can't be choosers.
I fully anneal my cases, from the base to the neck mouth. I've never had a case head separation that I can blame the cases for.
This is interesting, but we're off topic. Sorry OP.
I don't know who they get to produce their brass cases now. They were supposedly making it themselves, but I haven't purchased any for over 35 years.
Using IMR4350 to get 2830 fps is definitely a higher pressure load than shown in most manuals, but in your rifle, it's not excessive or close to maximum.
I'm not a fan of PPU brass, but as often as not these days, beggars can't be choosers.
I fully anneal my cases, from the base to the neck mouth. I've never had a case head separation that I can blame the cases for.
This is interesting, but we're off topic. Sorry OP.
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Haven't contacted with any criters... yet. But my 8x57 is good to go with 170s only going just under 2700fps out of a 19" barrel. I could get a 100fps more, easily, but it shoots enough for me. At smig over 7lbs scoped its ok to pack and still nice to shoot.
Bearhunter:
I really don't think you're off topic, given that we're discussing loading for / shooting the 8x57, but maybe that's just me.
I've a batch of 200 METALLWERKEN brass, which were made by Norma back in the day, just like HERTER'S brass was [$15.00/100 from Ammomart]. I had some HERTER'S 8x57JS brass, but decided to stick with one brand to make it easier to differentiate, although I believe they were from the same production run, [ie there's NOTHING wrong with the old HERTER'S brass; I have ~200 HERTER'S 7x57 brass for my 7x57, along with a batch of PPU & Hornady .275 Rigby for my 4 rifles in that cartridge.
The reason I use those, as well as PPU brass [GREAT brass; I use it in my 6 .303 Fl. N.E. rifles, my 8 9.3x57 rifles & my 9.3x62 Husqvarna M146], is because I separate brass by headstamp for use in my rifles. In this case, for jacketed bullets [196 gr. Norma PPDC & SAKO RNSPBT, as well as 227 gr. Norma & SAKO RNSP], I use use PPU brass & for cast [196 gr. BRTORNFPGCTL (Accurate Moulds 32-200H, that I designed)], as well as for NOE 255 gr. LRNGC], I use the Metallwerken brass. PPU for jacketed; Metallwerken for cast.
She looks a wee bit different these days, more like my other Whitworth Sporter rifles; its wood has been stripped & refinished, the DST are gone, replaced by a Timney, it wears a set of Warne bases [& no, I did not need to shim them!], a set of Leupold QRW rings & a Bausch & Lomb ELITE 3000 3-9x40, and has been fitted with a Pachmayr Old English Decelerator, to a LOP of 13.5" as do a lot of my rifles, at least those for warm weather, unlike those for hunting season in these parts, which have a LOP of ~12.00", as I wear much heavier clothing in the late fall/winter, although my Whitworth Safari in .375 H&H at 13.5" kicks less than my Husqvarna in 9.3x62.
I really don't think you're off topic, given that we're discussing loading for / shooting the 8x57, but maybe that's just me.
I've a batch of 200 METALLWERKEN brass, which were made by Norma back in the day, just like HERTER'S brass was [$15.00/100 from Ammomart]. I had some HERTER'S 8x57JS brass, but decided to stick with one brand to make it easier to differentiate, although I believe they were from the same production run, [ie there's NOTHING wrong with the old HERTER'S brass; I have ~200 HERTER'S 7x57 brass for my 7x57, along with a batch of PPU & Hornady .275 Rigby for my 4 rifles in that cartridge.
The reason I use those, as well as PPU brass [GREAT brass; I use it in my 6 .303 Fl. N.E. rifles, my 8 9.3x57 rifles & my 9.3x62 Husqvarna M146], is because I separate brass by headstamp for use in my rifles. In this case, for jacketed bullets [196 gr. Norma PPDC & SAKO RNSPBT, as well as 227 gr. Norma & SAKO RNSP], I use use PPU brass & for cast [196 gr. BRTORNFPGCTL (Accurate Moulds 32-200H, that I designed)], as well as for NOE 255 gr. LRNGC], I use the Metallwerken brass. PPU for jacketed; Metallwerken for cast.
She looks a wee bit different these days, more like my other Whitworth Sporter rifles; its wood has been stripped & refinished, the DST are gone, replaced by a Timney, it wears a set of Warne bases [& no, I did not need to shim them!], a set of Leupold QRW rings & a Bausch & Lomb ELITE 3000 3-9x40, and has been fitted with a Pachmayr Old English Decelerator, to a LOP of 13.5" as do a lot of my rifles, at least those for warm weather, unlike those for hunting season in these parts, which have a LOP of ~12.00", as I wear much heavier clothing in the late fall/winter, although my Whitworth Safari in .375 H&H at 13.5" kicks less than my Husqvarna in 9.3x62.
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dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
No need to apologize, its an open fourm.....I love hearing about the 7x57 as well. Have a few of them and recently picked up a cz 550 in 7x57, had it bedded and got mounts and a scope installed on it. Just haven't figured out what I want to shoot out it. I have a oberndorf mauser with irons shooting 173gr s&b at 2400 fps so accurately that I dont bother to load for it. Took a nice color phase bear with it during the spring season of 2023. Then an original DWM commercial sporting rifle shooting 160gr at 2500 fps. So I was somewhat leaning to go lighter and flatten the trajectory for the scoped one. I have a few options I've been considering like the 140gr ttsx or 154gr interlocks or SST's with imr 4350.
This brings back 50+ year old memories of purchasing NOS rifles by the crate for $125, then "sporterising" them. The profits were great.
Sadly, the fellows they were sold to, would purchase "kits" from places like Sherwood, Century, or International for cheap, and turn a silk purse into a sow's ear.
I had a proprietary set of trammels for drilling and tapping for scope bases back then, so at least that part was done properly.
I used to leave the iron sights on the barrels and didn't cut them back, unless paid to do it.
Some of the resulting abortions, when hacksaws and files were the primary tools, along with a torch to melt the solder under the rear sight base just boggled the mind.
Often those rifles were ruined for any useful purpose and ended up being thrown away or stored in poor conditions until they rusted away.
MRP, that's a nice looking rifle and should do yeoman's service in the field for almost another century.
CZ 550 twist rate for 7x57 barrels is usually 1-200 mm or 1-8.7 inches.
They usually have very deep throats for long, heavy bullets.
I've had a couple over the years, and they loved long boat tail or ELD bullets 140 grain+.
You can easily exceed manual velocities with this action.
W760 or H414, over magnum primers is the way to go. H100V is so good in my 7x57 rifles, you would think it was purpose designed for it, with all bullet weights.
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