8x57 Mauser and 30-06 Springfield

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303carbine

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Question for the reloaders, I chronographed some of my 8x57 loads and I was really surprised to find that the 185 grain 8x57 load was faster than some of the 30-06 loads with 165 Hornady's.
Why is that ?? I always figured the 06 would out do the 8x57 with all bullet weights.....:eek:
 
What is the load spec recipe for each one John?
Too many unseen variables here, the 06/165 combo could be sitting over a little pile of SR4759 and the 8/185's over a stiff load of H414....
We need the details. :)
Noel
 
The 8x57 are loaded with 47 grains of IMR 4895 under a Remington 185 Core-Lokt bullet and were shot out of my Yugo M48 with a standard length barrel .(23 & 3/4) inches ??
The 30-06 were loaded with 58 grains of IMR 4831 under a 165 Hornady SP bullet with a barrel length of 22 inches
I can't remember for sure the chrony results but the 8x57 was higher in velocity than the 06 the same trip to the range.?
Both guns were shot through the same chrony less than 10 minutes apart and the results surprised me and everyone who was looking at the reading on the chrony. The 8x57 is no slouch and I would use it anywhere the 06 could be used.
 
I don't have specific load data for the Remmy 8mm's, but my Speer manual lists 170gr Sp's and IMR 4895 at 46gr ( max) for 2640. Put 15 mor grains of bullet over that will bump the pressures and give more velocity.
The 06 load w/165gr with IMR 4831 at 59gr (Max) for 2670. Seeing as you are a grain less you might be 2580 +/-.
It doesn't look like a stretch to me for this to happen, If you switched to a bit faster powder in the 06, say 4350, there is no way the 8x57 could keep up velocity wise.
Noel
 
8mm and 06

I agree Noel, I was just surprised to get the results that I got.Perhaps with 4895 in the 06 the results would be totally different again.:)
The 8x57 is better in a lot of ways than the 308 for sure, especially with the bigger slugs.:cool:
 
I was suprised this morning with how well the H4895 worked in my 7x57 with 140 psp's. I just seated them to the speer manual specs. First group of three I fired from one knee gave an 1 3/8" group at 100 yards. I think it is a bad flinch I have off the bench beacause I could not get close to that for the rest of the morning. They were popping out at 2780, 2788, 2760 and quite mild in terms of recoil.
Necking up a case can sometimes feel like cheating when you get the extra speed, I guess the trade off is a lower B.C.
Your IMR4895 is listed in my hornady manual as right between the IMR3031 and IMR4064, it might be worth a try in the 06 case, you never know!
 
I tried my 154's too. my Brno has such a long throat I had been trying to seat off the lands and in doing so the bullet tips were hanging up on the front of the mag well. So I says to myself, hey, why don't I just seat them in .020" and try that next time. I should have backed my powder charge off, cuz they clocked an average of 2975! Yikes!!!!!!! My load of H414 is just barely over the max listed loads to compensate for the bullet being seated out so far. I had used this load in +30C without case head expansion and the 2800fps that the manual said I would get too. The accuracy went all for crap too. I will be backing off the load now and starting over since the C.O.L. is changed.
Lesson learned for sure! It was reall cool when I shot too, 13C the most!
 
The 8x57 is virtually identical to the '06 incapabilities and power. The only reason whay that might be surprising is if you;re comparing it to how factory 8mm's are loaded. American-loaded 8x57 ammo is very very mild, and handloader can easily and safely exceed factory loads by a significant margin
 
I haven't loaded for the 8x57, but I would think that with both cartridges loaded to the same pressures, with optimal powders, and same weight bullets and same length barrels, that the muzzle velocities would be very close. The bore diameter advantage of the 8x57 being offset by the capacity advantage of the 30-06.

The 8x57 would probably really caught on in North America if 48,000 cup spec ammo was readily available right after the war
 
The bullet you choose makes a difference too. My 8mm's all shoot a 180gr Nosler at a slightly higher MV than the 170gr Speer with identical loads.

I suspect that the greater surface area of the Speer causes more friction with the rifling. The 180gr Nosler is a Boat Tail with a long unsupported front section (ogive?), while the Speer is flat-based and rather squat.
 
^ Yeah, exactly right. That's known as the 'bearing surface' or the bullet. This concept applies to all cartridges/bullets, not just the 8x57
 
Noel

Try the Extreme line of Hodgdon Powders they are not touchy like the ball powders and are more stable in the hottest conditions. :cool:
I tried the H4895 Extreme in my 308 and shot into 1/2 inch at 100 yards on the hottest day of the year without excess pressure. :) Since our local range is closed due to heat I went to a gravel pit to sight in the 308 and 7x57.
The rocks were so hot in the gravel pit that day that I burned my elbows from shooting prone without realizing it.:eek: The same conditions with another powder would probably result in high or dangerous pressure. I'm impressed by the Extreme powders because they actually work as advertised.:)
 
I have what I believe to be a very nice basis for comparing these two great chamberings. Each is chambered in a Remington 700, the 30-06 in a 700 SSDM with a 24" tube, and the 8x57 in a 700 Classic, also with a 24" barrel.
Here are my results with similar weight bullets. 180 grain Ballistic Tip. 30-06 2835 fps, 8x57 2825 fps. 200 grain Partitions, 30-06 2650 fps, 8x57 2655 fps.
200 Accubond 30-06 2665 fps, 8x57 2662 fps. So as has been noted, the two are very close, with the 8x57 making up for the slightly smaller capacity with the larger bullet base, and shorter bearing surface. I lucked onto a powder that really works well in the 8x57, and that is Vihtavuori N550. Fine grained, dense and just seems to have the right burning rate to get great velocities without compressing the load too much. Shot a moose with the 8x57 and the 200 Accubond last fall at about 275 yards. Surprisingly, I did not recover the bullet, as it exited out the other side of the lung cavity. He fell where he stood, so I was impressed with the performance of the rifle/cartridge/bullet combination. Regards, Eagleye.
 
303carbine said:
Try the Extreme line of Hodgdon Powders they are not touchy like the ball powders and are more stable in the hottest conditions. :cool:
I tried the H4895 Extreme in my 308 and shot into 1/2 inch at 100 yards on the hottest day of the year without excess pressure. :) Since our local range is closed due to heat I went to a gravel pit to sight in the 308 and 7x57.
The rocks were so hot in the gravel pit that day that I burned my elbows from shooting prone without realizing it.:eek: The same conditions with another powder would probably result in high or dangerous pressure. I'm impressed by the Extreme powders because they actually work as advertised.:)
Click to expand...

Thanks John, I will give that a try. I think part of the grief was pushing the bullet .020" back into the case with out changing the powder charge too.
I had a hard time believeing my chrony when it read those high velocities. The cases did not expand or stretch and extraction was as smooth as butter.

Noel
 
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