I've heard of a few chaps making 8x58R brass using .45-70 brass. However the .45-70 rim dia. as I recall is .608" where-as the 8x58R rouds requires a .574" to .576" rim dia.
A variation of .032" TO .034"
Anyone have a better system of making their own 8x58R brass?
I'm including some of the research I've conducted
Cut & Paste
Riflechair
www.riflechair.com
--------------------------------
Dimensions of 8x58R Danish cartridge:
Danish military issue case dated 1931 and
loaded in Sweden with a soft point bullet.
case OAL = 2.272"
head diameter = .501"
rim diameter = .574"
rim thickness = .058"
bullet diameter
at case mouth = .323"
Norma commercial 8x58RD
headstamp = Norma 8mm m/89
case OAL = 2.266"
head diameter = .501"
rim diameter = .576"
rim thickness = .059"
bullet diameter
at case mouth = .323"
(same bullet as above, 196gr RN SP)
8x58RD
The Danish military cartridge of 1889 is not a common sight today. The Danish Krag Jörgensen rifle is rarely used today, but the cartridge was chambered also in Danish, Swedish and Norwegian Remington rolling block rifles, and these are stumbled upon fairly regularly. Some people like to shoot these old rifles, so therefore we have included loading data for it.
Originally the cartridge was loaded with a compressed black powder charge, awaiting the final development of the smokeless powders. The first military cartridge had a 14,7 g roundnose bullet, loaded to a V0 of about 485 m/s. Ín later smokeless loads the velocity was increased to 620 m/s using the same bullet.
In 1908 the Danes went over to the so called "spidsskarp", a cartridge loaded with a 12,7 g spitzer bullet where the velocity was a claimed 750 m/s. The experience with this cartridge was, however, that it was to powerful for the rolling block rifles, and a reduced charge load using the dame bullet was developed for these rifles.
Until the 1960's, Norma made a factory load load in 8x58RD using a 12,7 g soft point and a claimed velocity of 680 m/s, with respect due to the many rolling block rifles being used for hunting in Sweden. Norma also made a batch of M1908 spidsskarp for Denmark, using these same figures.
The loads presented here are being held to the same levels, and can be used in both Krag-Jörgensen and rolling block rifles. Original cases uses berdan primers, but new boxer primed cases are available from Bertram. Loading dies are available from RCBS.
--------------------------------------
Left to right:
Bertram 8x58RD
Buffalo Arms (fired 2x)
Norma 8mm m/89 factory
Denmark 8x58R loaded with Norma 196gr Alaska bullet
and with headstamp:
crown
19 10
HL
................Bert.....Buff.......Norma....Den.
rim dia........569......573.......575.......574
rim thick.....062......052......058........058
case oal...2.253....2.276....2.269.....2.270
dia shoul.....432......458......458........458
top of case body
case body
midway from
rim to shoulder
...............461........481......476........484
~~~~~~~~~
The test rifle data from the Norwegian Ladeboken. Pay particular attention to the
bullet weights and velocities. While these are specific to the 1889 Swedish rolling
block there's no good reason to put yourself at risk by overloading for 100+ year
old rifles trying to make them into something they are not.
Test weapon; Carl Gustaf Remington Rolling Block 1872/93
(m/1867-89 converted in 1893. Obviously a military rifle, but no further
clues to whether sporterized or original. Barrel length suggests the latter.)
Barrel length - 85 cm / 33"
Rifling twist - 1-9 1/2" / 1- 241 mm
Rifling dia. - .323" / 8,20 mm
Case - Bertram
Primer - Remington 9 1/2
Maximum case length - 58,0 mm
Trim-to length - 57,8 mm
Factory ammunition chronographed in test weapon -
--Norma 12,7 g Alaska 2234 fps / 681 ms -
--Norma manufactured M1908 Spidsskarp (spitzer)
(D Mantel type bullet) 12,7 g 2283 fps / 696 ms
Compare these "factory" velocities with those listed as being factory velocity
in Cartridges of the World. You'll see why I make an issue of this particular subject.
NORMA LOADS AND DIMENSION DETAILS
A variation of .032" TO .034"
Anyone have a better system of making their own 8x58R brass?
I'm including some of the research I've conducted
Cut & Paste
Riflechair
www.riflechair.com
--------------------------------
Dimensions of 8x58R Danish cartridge:
Danish military issue case dated 1931 and
loaded in Sweden with a soft point bullet.
case OAL = 2.272"
head diameter = .501"
rim diameter = .574"
rim thickness = .058"
bullet diameter
at case mouth = .323"
Norma commercial 8x58RD
headstamp = Norma 8mm m/89
case OAL = 2.266"
head diameter = .501"
rim diameter = .576"
rim thickness = .059"
bullet diameter
at case mouth = .323"
(same bullet as above, 196gr RN SP)
8x58RD
The Danish military cartridge of 1889 is not a common sight today. The Danish Krag Jörgensen rifle is rarely used today, but the cartridge was chambered also in Danish, Swedish and Norwegian Remington rolling block rifles, and these are stumbled upon fairly regularly. Some people like to shoot these old rifles, so therefore we have included loading data for it.
Originally the cartridge was loaded with a compressed black powder charge, awaiting the final development of the smokeless powders. The first military cartridge had a 14,7 g roundnose bullet, loaded to a V0 of about 485 m/s. Ín later smokeless loads the velocity was increased to 620 m/s using the same bullet.
In 1908 the Danes went over to the so called "spidsskarp", a cartridge loaded with a 12,7 g spitzer bullet where the velocity was a claimed 750 m/s. The experience with this cartridge was, however, that it was to powerful for the rolling block rifles, and a reduced charge load using the dame bullet was developed for these rifles.
Until the 1960's, Norma made a factory load load in 8x58RD using a 12,7 g soft point and a claimed velocity of 680 m/s, with respect due to the many rolling block rifles being used for hunting in Sweden. Norma also made a batch of M1908 spidsskarp for Denmark, using these same figures.
The loads presented here are being held to the same levels, and can be used in both Krag-Jörgensen and rolling block rifles. Original cases uses berdan primers, but new boxer primed cases are available from Bertram. Loading dies are available from RCBS.
--------------------------------------
Left to right:
Bertram 8x58RD
Buffalo Arms (fired 2x)
Norma 8mm m/89 factory
Denmark 8x58R loaded with Norma 196gr Alaska bullet
and with headstamp:
crown
19 10
HL
................Bert.....Buff.......Norma....Den.
rim dia........569......573.......575.......574
rim thick.....062......052......058........058
case oal...2.253....2.276....2.269.....2.270
dia shoul.....432......458......458........458
top of case body
case body
midway from
rim to shoulder
...............461........481......476........484
~~~~~~~~~
The test rifle data from the Norwegian Ladeboken. Pay particular attention to the
bullet weights and velocities. While these are specific to the 1889 Swedish rolling
block there's no good reason to put yourself at risk by overloading for 100+ year
old rifles trying to make them into something they are not.
Test weapon; Carl Gustaf Remington Rolling Block 1872/93
(m/1867-89 converted in 1893. Obviously a military rifle, but no further
clues to whether sporterized or original. Barrel length suggests the latter.)
Barrel length - 85 cm / 33"
Rifling twist - 1-9 1/2" / 1- 241 mm
Rifling dia. - .323" / 8,20 mm
Case - Bertram
Primer - Remington 9 1/2
Maximum case length - 58,0 mm
Trim-to length - 57,8 mm
Factory ammunition chronographed in test weapon -
--Norma 12,7 g Alaska 2234 fps / 681 ms -
--Norma manufactured M1908 Spidsskarp (spitzer)
(D Mantel type bullet) 12,7 g 2283 fps / 696 ms
Compare these "factory" velocities with those listed as being factory velocity
in Cartridges of the World. You'll see why I make an issue of this particular subject.
NORMA LOADS AND DIMENSION DETAILS
Last edited:
