9.3 X 72 Rimmed

tokguy

tokguy

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Anyone ever heard of this round? I can get a combination rifle in this round ( I think it is ). But it won't do me much good if Jimmy Hoffa had the last box of shells.
UnitedArms12x8mmRearview.jpg

It's not marked as such a caliber( or any other that I can see), but I picked up a loaded 38/72 win cartridge that was handy and checked it for size in the muzzle. Seemed to fit well...hmmm. Broke it open and slid the round in the chamber, seemed to fit well.
Now realize that I would never dream of dropping the hammer in such a situation; but what the heck is the cailber? It's an old, Belgian made double(Unique brand); but... in a 38-72 win? The papers with the gun say 12 ga X 8mm; ah...I don't think you can fit a .38 cal in an 8mm bore. Tne most likely candidate is 9.3 X72 R. I'm guessing the 72 is mm while I know on a 38-72 win the 72 stands for grains; not the same I'm thinking.
I know; take it to a gunsmith, and in a perfect world I would but it's not so easily done in this situation.
Any help would be greatly appriecated
 
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The 72 is the case length in millimetres. 9.3mm is the calibre. Nosler makes a selection of jacketed bullets for the 9.3, but only has data for the 9.3x62mm Mauser, and the 9.3x74Rimmed (which is very much like the .375 H&H w/o the belt). Check with a copy of Cartridges of the World if you can get one. I have seen it in there, but can't recall the particulars. Yeah, the .38-72 Winchester might have a portion of the case in the rifling past the chamber if you stuff it in the breech. Don't do that.

http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_printable.cfm?metallicid=1019&MW=&PM=&PT= Cartridge dimensions and a bit of load data.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4739.html dies, and brass (probably if you asked nice)

Not surewhat you could make brass out of if you had to, but there is bound to be something. It is the black powder predecessor of the 9.3x74R round. Looks to have a tapered body about 50mm from the rim, and then a 20mm neck section. Shouldn't be too much of a problem to get to shoot with BP or Pyrodex loads. No worse than a .40-82 Winchester. Do a chamber cast with Cerosafe to be sure.

Anyway, good luck, I wouldn't mind getting my mitts on a metric BP round to play with one day.
 
I think I read a little on it somewheres in google-land. IIRC it is almost the same ballistics as a 9.3x62mm, maybe a touch less, with a longer case and lower pressures. Check Prophet River (sponsoring dealer) for ammo...I'm sure he had an advert for it. Oops.....trying to be helpful and might be mixed up with the x74.
 
Who knows, you might get lucky and be able to run 9.3x74R brass thru the 9.3x72R size die, do a little trim and have at it. The text I found claied the 74R was the smokeless replacement for the 72R, so with any luck it's on a common case head.
 
9.3x72 is far weaker than 9.3x74R..........The Luftwafa used to issue drilling to their pilots in Afrika corps.Suhl 12x12x9.3x74R for a survival gun..........Frank Barnes cartridges of the world has data on both if you need it I'm on my way out the door hunting this AM..........Harold
 
Yeah, Mbogo has it correct - the 9.3x72R is actually on par with the .38-55 (original loading). You will not be able to make these out of anything, sorry. From time to time, you will actually run into the cases, and you can get dies from the major manufacturers, check BuffaloArms, they have 'em. The cartridge is extremely neat, in my opinion. I was actually planning some time ago to buy a drilling in that caliber. However, the main question is still not answered, and that is . . . what is the gun chambered in? If you look on the bottom of the barrels, under the action, there should be some indications. If it is Belgian, it will be proofed, and they would have had to mark the caliber there somewhere, even if it is only the caliber, not the cartridge. Look for a 9 or 9.3 or 8. If you can, slug the bore. Even better, do a Cerrosafe cast of the chamber. With these kinds of guns, you can't just guess and hope, you need to have some good info before you stuff anything, even light loads, into the breech and pull the trigger. Good luck, and kudos to you for thinking about something off the beaten track!
 
gabrielguitars said:
Yeah, Mbogo has it correct - the 9.3x72R is actually on par with the .38-55 (original loading). You will not be able to make these out of anything, sorry. From time to time, you will actually run into the cases, and you can get dies from the major manufacturers, check BuffaloArms, they have 'em. The cartridge is extremely neat, in my opinion. I was actually planning some time ago to buy a drilling in that caliber. However, the main question is still not answered, and that is . . . what is the gun chambered in? If you look on the bottom of the barrels, under the action, there should be some indications. If it is Belgian, it will be proofed, and they would have had to mark the caliber there somewhere, even if it is only the caliber, not the cartridge. Look for a 9 or 9.3 or 8. If you can, slug the bore. Even better, do a Cerrosafe cast of the chamber. With these kinds of guns, you can't just guess and hope, you need to have some good info before you stuff anything, even light loads, into the breech and pull the trigger. Good luck, and kudos to you for thinking about something off the beaten track!
Click to expand...
It like to of took my breath away when I realized what it was, LOL. It was stuffed in with a bunch of Shotguns; kinda like the hidden prize.
It's marked United Arms Manufactories, Liege on the side locks( apparently it is an Arms guild) ; but Dominion on the rib between the barrels. I'm still trying to find out more...
The ejector plate is missing; but I can probably build one with time and patience
 
It looks to me that you couuld concievably make brass from 9.3x74R. Just need to reform the shoulder, trim, then turn down the rim somewhat. The case specs I posted compared to the 9.3x74R specs in the Noser manual say to me that the 74mm was the smokeless replacement for the 72mm. I'd have to say the North American of BPC woud have to be the .40-70 Sharps Straight, or even the .38-72 Winchester, I am thinking it would wipe the floor with the .38-55 in terms of performance. :stirthepot2: Not that there's anything wrong with the .38-55, I prefer it over my .30-30, just that they aren't in the same class. And I can't wait to get mine back from the gunsmith.
 
I don't think you can make 9.3x72R from 9.3x74R as the former is a straight taper case whereas the latter has a shoulder. Huntington's still lists Norma 9.3x72R brass for ~$100 per 100.
 
The 9.3x72R dates back to1890's and was originally a blackpowder round.Harold Brass and a bullet mold and you're back in buisness.I have a line on an Australian Co that makes custom molds for around $100 Canadian should be able to use 777 if you don't want corrosive BP........................Brass may be RWS/Norma. The 9.3x72R Sauer used a FN 186gr bullet not certain if other 9.3x72R versions exist?Bore needs to be slugged as the 72R's were .364" bore not the regular .366 like all other 9.3's They are 35 Rem power.One could use 9mm Makarov pistol bullets for plinking perhaps .365" Hornady some guys use them for chickens out of 9.3x57 and 62's GOOGLE 9.3x72R data and theres lots of info.Good luck
 
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In case it really is a 9.3x72R have a look here: http://nitroexpress.com/

There were sesveral discussions on this cartridge like
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/show...t=&PHPSESSID=329e48119e57d67cabf4f65bfc44d783

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/show...t=&PHPSESSID=329e48119e57d67cabf4f65bfc44d783

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/show...t=&PHPSESSID=329e48119e57d67cabf4f65bfc44d783

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/show...t=&PHPSESSID=329e48119e57d67cabf4f65bfc44d783

Virgin boxer primed brass is available from RWS and Sellier&Bellot. There is no reasonable way to make brass from 9.3x74R. The next similar case is even more obsolete, it´s parent cartridge was called .360 Nitro Express. The round is, by it´s pressure level and boiler room, limited to 250grs bullets maximum. There were, hopefully still are, some Nosler Solid Base bullets in .366 dia made in this weight. Norma also is making 231grs. In case you are looking further around in CIP or SAAMI tables you will find strange bullet diameters listed. Don´t bother they are meant for lead slugs. The fitting size for modern softpoints is .364 to .366. Suitable powders are the quicker burning medium rifle powders like IMR3031, IMR 4895. There is a loading with SR4759 somewhere listed, forget it. I gave it a try and it isn´t worth a damn in my drilling. Best loading to date, but not yet powerful enough, was with Vihtavouori N135.
 
Thanks guys

I think Grand-dad has one of those (loaded) in the shell assortment. It was marked in German so I was'nt sure what calibur it was. I'll try it for fit( but not ever close the action;don't worry) and look under the front handguard from calibur markings as well.
I appriecate all your help & advice.
Tokguy
 
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