91/30 Mosin Sniper

dimon

dimon

CGN Regular
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Location
Newfoundland/Latvia
Happy New Year everyone. Got this one this evening. 1944 Izhevsk Mosin sniper. Looks pretty close to original to me. Scope matches the # on rifle....the font and style looks original(I have 2 others with scrubbed numbers and restamped, font is different). Looks like scope made in 1944.
All serial numbers are original, font matches everywhere. No scrubbing everywhere, and as like I said the font is 100% matching. No electropencil anywhere. Every part of the rifle whether it is big, little or small is stamped with arrow in triangle. Stock has PRESSED in escutcheons, however has a coat of shellac over original finish. Rollmarks on stock are intact. Stock is shimmed at trigger assembly. No refurb markings on steel or wood. My opinion that this one has seen a refurbishment just by applying a coat of shellac over it, including metal:) What do you think?










 
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Looks good to me.If it was refurbished it would have a square with a / in it.Not about to go down and check mine but the slash could also be\.
 
mr.e moose said:
Looks good to me.If it was refurbished it would have a square with a / in it.Not about to go down and check mine but the slash could also be\.
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Not all refurbs are marked as such. I would have to see the rifle in person but the bolt looks to have been renumbered. The more likely scenario is that it is a better than average refurb. Molot?
 
Yep. Molot. I am sure it is way better refurb than others(I have 2 more) The finish on bolt looks a bit rough, but no sign of refurbishment IMHO. Have a look:





 
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Just received my wives M-38 today.1943 Izhevsk all matching except for the mag floor plate, bolt is similarly finished with a roughly machined reciever. Rough finish is what you find on most late war Russian rifles. The difference you find between early and late war Mosins is quite noticeable.
 
How does original stamping look like? It is rather carving here, not stamping. Looks like 1944 Yoshkar Ola production scope IMHO. I base it on the info from american forum. Will post close up pic later.
 
Im pretty sure my PU sniper was also only poorly painted in shellac during refurb, well and the scope number was stamped to the side of the receiver because its a Tula. Like yours mine is also all matching even has 1944 dated optic and stock.

P.s it looks like there's a refurb mark on the stock in the 4th pic. The square with the line down the middle.
http://russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/information/marks/
 
Here are two photos showing serials up close. Top photo has one original bolt with two molots all Izhevsk.




This shows two 43 Izhevsk ( the rough ones ) & a 41 Izhevsk & the bottom is a 40 tula all original stampings. The difference in shape & texture between the original & renumbered bolts is quite pronounced.

 
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1. Molot is the Russian equivalent of Mitchell Mauser. Mitchell does specialize in making hard to find k98 variants out of regular k98. Molot does specialize in refurbishment of military surplus rifles for the civilian buyer who likes old army rifle in so-calle pristine condition

2. Molot is a former state owned factory they do have full access to decommission lists they can produce matching sniper rifle with all original numbers. They will even produce certificate of authenticity which is 99% authentic with 1% going to made nowadays.
This is one of the reasons Molot Snipers are if sold for European market never marked as originals. Average European collector is so deep into his hobby he cannot be fooled, plus way better literature especially in Germany

3. Yes NPZ and VOMZ do make antique looking sniper scopes that can be made matched to particular rifle. Scopes will even come with dried up grease on them

If it is Mitchell or Molot marked assume it is an old lady 100% but her make up and cosmetic surgery was done quite recently
 
wojnar said:
1. Molot is the Russian equivalent of Mitchell Mauser. Mitchell does specialize in making hard to find k98 variants out of regular k98. Molot does specialize in refurbishment of military surplus rifles for the civilian buyer who likes old army rifle in so-calle pristine condition

2. Molot is a former state owned factory they do have full access to decommission lists they can produce matching sniper rifle with all original numbers. They will even produce certificate of authenticity which is 99% authentic with 1% going to made nowadays.
This is one of the reasons Molot Snipers are if sold for European market never marked as originals. Average European collector is so deep into his hobby he cannot be fooled, plus way better literature especially in Germany

3. Yes NPZ and VOMZ do make antique looking sniper scopes that can be made matched to particular rifle. Scopes will even come with dried up grease on them

If it is Mitchell or Molot marked assume it is an old lady 100% but her make up and cosmetic surgery was done quite recently
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That's rather negative. I have heard this stated many times on the interweeb but have never seen a facts to back it up. If you are trying to say that the molot snipers are fakes, good luck with that. If you are saying they are recently put together from parts, maybe, but some of them come with a decades worth of rust on mated parts. The real problem with many European & North American collectors is they are so deep into their hobby they cant admit being dead wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
 
The last lot of Molot M91/30 snipers that were on the market in Canada originally were Moscow Police snipers that Molot acquired and boxed in individual cardboard boxes remarked before sale as hunting rifles to get past Russian/EU export rules for ex-military weapons.
 
I am going to do some reading on russian forum as well. It appears that there is a wealth of info on Molot stuff. I know one thing: they don't make fake snipers. These are original surplus rifles, marked as hunting carbines and sold as such to go around the law prohibiting sale/export of surplus military weapons to civilians. Same as for those converted auto AVT-40's sold in Russia as hunting rifles. In no way these are refurbs posed as originals. These are original and unissued 1944 AVT's.
Desporterizer, I have a couple of original Mosins and the finish looks similar to ones you posted. The early rifle bolts have better finish, war production is more rough. I can only guess about the bolt in question though. It looks like this bolt is not polished enough after production/conversion of bent handle. Rough job at production or at refurb, I guess. BUT, IMHO the FONT looks very identical to the one you showed on your 1st photo, the one on top...Have a look:





And scope...:

 
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I haven't put much faith in fonts since seeing an obviously refurbed rifle with exactly the same font as the serial on the barrel. I look more for shape & metal finish these days.
 
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