9MM + Bear

I'd feel relatively safe armed with a 9mm and a couple magazines...if we're talking back bears and coagars; you could do hell of a lot worse than a 9mm IMO!

it's no hunting round but think of it this way; no army or police agency would issue a .22 as a sidearm yet I heard more peopel are killled with a .22 (in the states) every year than any other caliber, don't know if it's true, and I know that .22 is far from ideal self self defence caliber yet 2-3 shots to the head/neck/chest will drop any human! Now isn't .22 to human, same as 9mm to bear? ;) not idel but with a few well placed rounds it would probably do the job if you see it coming for far enough.
 
A bear's breast bone would stop the 9mm bullet past 15 yards. Within 5 yards, all bets are off and it would entirely depend on accuracy and speed of the shooter.
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I don't think there is that much difference in velocity from the muzzle to 25yards, sure it drops a little but it shouldn't make a difference if you can hit the same spot.
 
IM_Lugger said:
I'd feel relatively safe armed with a 9mm and a couple magazines...if we're talking back bears and coagars; you could do hell of a lot worse than a 9mm IMO!

it's no hunting round but think of it this way; no army or police agency would issue a .22 as a sidearm yet I heard more peopel are killled with a .22 (in the states) every year than any other caliber, don't know if it's true, and I know that .22 is far from ideal self self defence caliber yet 2-3 shots to the head/neck/chest will drop any human! Now isn't .22 to human, same as 9mm to bear? ;) not ideal but with a few well placed rounds it would probably do the job if you see it coming for far enough.
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I'm glad you live in southern ontario where there are very very few bears, as you don't seem to have a clue. a couple magazines? so you expect to have the time to empty one and reload during this kind of scenario? give your head a shake.

as for the second paragraph in your post..... :bsFlag:


ah the great CGN bear debates, largely propagated by those with little or no experience hunting or stopping a bear. love this place.
 
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trouble is most "bear" encounters are very much less than 25 yards, and typically it's a charging, front on ,head and shoulders shot presented- that means you've got a lot of bone to deal with as well as fur- getting through that with a 9 is marginal at best unless you can put MULTIPLE HITS IN THE SAME OR PROXIMITY HOLE- ie just like how a sam 180through armour plate- 180 rounds through roughly the same hole- you EVENTUALLY get through-
 
I'm glad you live in southern ontario where there are very very few bears, as you don't seem to have a clue. a couple magazines? so you expect to have the time to empty one and reload during this kind of scenario? give your head a shake.

as for the second paragraph in your post.....


ah the great CGN bear debates, largely propagated by those with little or no experience hunting or stopping a beat. love this place.
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I can empty a magazine in under 4 seconds, I don't know what scnario you have in mind but it's not entirely impossible that one would have to relaod, esp if you see the bear from far enough.

and what part of the second paragraph you don't agree with? bears have been taken with a 9mm, 40, 45acp before it's not impossible!
 
Bad position to be in

Gerich said:
Just had a question about 9mm ammo after a debate last weekend.

IF a 9mm was to be used for bear/cougar protection, what would be the best type of bullet to use for a close encounter.
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I was once forced by circumstance to carry a 9mm pistol for bear defence so I loaded the mag with 16 rds of blazer safety slugs and teflon tipped expanders , alternate rds. , one to penetrate and expand the next to explode.
I only expected to shove the pistol in teddy's face as he was chewing on me.

But then - I did once kill a black with a hollowpoint 22 rimfire - one shot - top of cranial cavity.

A 9mm. is better than no mm.
Or you might end up like this unfortunate :eek:
bear6.jpg
bear8.jpg


12 guage is the best way to protect yourself.
Bird shot to blind , triple then double , then the rest slugs , as it gets close.
Remember - a bear can run 44 feet per second , if its within 50 yds you better be cocked safety off and sighted so you can empty your mag in seconds when teddy charges. Remember to side step as you shoot.
 
I think your best bet would be to aim for the brain and unload. If you're lucky one of those panicked shots will pop that sucker in the head.
 
chopper 1 said:
12 guage is the best way to protect yourself.
Bird shot to blind , triple then double , then the rest slugs , as it gets close.
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stop it.... please.... laughing so hard... can't.... breath..... :runaway:

seriously though, how much paint have you been huffing today?

no side stepping, no mag changes, none of that bull####. having been on the receiving end of a few bluff (luckily) charges, and one that ended in me putting yogi into a face-plant skid, I'm by no means an expert, but I can tell you it happens very fast and you need to plant your feet, square up and shoot strait. no time for blinding shots (you really want to go track a blind, wounded, pissed off bear when his other senses ate 100x better then yours?). you shoot to stop, center mass.

a couple youtube clips to show you how fast it can happen. do you think you have time to empty 20rnd 9mm into this animal with a mag change inbetween? how about work through the first 3 rounds of shot before you get to a stopping (slug) round? please remember these videos are of hunters that were fully aware of the presence of bears in close proximity at the time of the charge. now take that away and factor in a surprise of fast moving teeth and fur.

again, how many of you are ever going to get out of your treestands long enough to worry about a bear? ;)


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My 2 cents...

9mm is better than no mm - Agreed.

I would go for a alternating mix of FMJ and JHP as hot as I could get. But I would only do this as a side arm while using Brenneke shotgun slugs in a pump as a main gun.

Also agreed with planting yourself firmly to make evey shot count. Remember that adrenalin with make your fine motore coordination ####ty and you'll be lucky to hit anything if taken by suprise.

I too love the bear defence thread. I am curious to see the army of trained armoured bears that everyone is speaking of, but the OP said rightfully that this was just ####s and giggles smak-talk with his friends, so what is the harm in answering a friendly discussion.

I've seen very few grizzlies in my life thankfully. Every black I've seen ran away before I could even get a picture cause they are so skittish int hye wild. When they are near garbage, or are habituated you better be in a car or have a big gun.
 
mudgunner49 said:
There was sow grizzly knocked off by a fisherman a few years back right in Anchorage AK with a 124 gr FMJ - obviously it didn't bounce off...
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If I am recounting the same event, (stream fishing of salmon) his friend had an 870 shotgun, and dropped it, when fumbling to get it into action.

So although the 9mm would not be my first choice, I'm sure he is happy he brought it that day.
 
Everyone I have talked to that has a lot of experience with bears says penetration is the key to bringing a bear down. The 9mm does penetrate well, I like the idea of JHP, FMJ, but a hot XTP might work nicely expanding a bit but not to much. Use the NATO fmj and you get good penetration. Now if you could carry a full mag of 13-17rds then you are talking. Keep in mind not every bear is a monster 800lb beast, a lot of them are smaller. A pistol/revolver on the hip and a rifle/shotgun slung on the shoulder is a good combo. For the 9mm I would go with the 124gr. I always thought G20 with a long compensated slide in 10mm would make a nice bush gun. Also you might want to consider 357Sig.
 
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