9MM + Bear
- Thread starter Drillbit
- Start date
canadaman30
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Far from the City
I sure wouldn't go looking for a bear with a 9mm. I'm pretty sure if a bear comes busting out of thickets at 40 yards straight at you, you'd better make the first shot count even if you get one off. Any dogging I've done in thick cover I hang up the rifle and take my 20" 870 with slugs. At least I will stand a chance just in case.
If your employment/income requires you to be in the bush AND the nature of your work does not allow you to carry a long gun then you can get a Wilderness ATC. I have been getting them regularly since 1992.
Use the search function on ATC.
A 9mm isn't ideal, but it's better than chucking rocks. Liek most injured animals, bears will most likely move away from pain, injury and associated loud noises.
I'd use a FMJ wiht a flat point, and load it pretty hot.
I'd use a FMJ wiht a flat point, and load it pretty hot.
- Location
- Sudbury, On
My beretta storm re-barreled weighs under six pounds.
More than adequate.
More than adequate.
Hmmmm 9mm worth your life???? Animals can be tougher then you think! some are pussys and die fast and some are like zombies and never die lol. Plus your not the best shot when under stress so that shot between the eyes is a pipe dream.
Your life do what you want
Your life do what you want
- Location
- Southeastern Michigan
Gerich, ¿Cómo va usted dice licencia el oso solamente? Regards, Richard
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
It seems that pistols are no longer available for wilderness ATCs, thus it is a "revolver only" game; so unless you plan to carry a Ruger Blackhawk Convertable or a Security Six in 9mm, a .357 magnum is more likely to be your weapon of choice in a .36 bore. I would like to say that the CFO's decision a couple of years ago to limit the authorization for wilderness carry to revolvers is poorly conceived and irrational.
As to the suitability of a 9mm for protection from wildlife, I'll come at this from a slightly different direction than some of the other posters. I think the 9mm can work, and here's why. If you need to shoot a bear with your pistol or revolver it is very close range problem, probably almost contact close. One does not open hostilities with a dangerous animal at long range with a handgun. The handgun is a last ditch weapon and is only used when you have nothing to loose. At very close range the bullet is at it's greatest velocity and will produce the deepest wound channel. The part of the bear that is closest to the shooter is the head, and it is the head that is the target. Aim at the head behind the eyes and ahead of the ears, within the width of the snout. While not requiring master marksmanship, the target will be in motion, and due to the circumstances the shot is demanding and can only be pulled off by a very cool hand. The target weight, that is the weight of the bear's head rather than it's total body weight, even on a very big bear, will not exceed 200 pounds. Even those of us who dislike the 9mm must concede that it is capable of good penetration on a 200 pound target.
The cranial cavity does not respond well to high velocity projectiles, and the results of a gun shot wound from even a low powered cartridge typically chambered in a service pistol will produce an immediate effect, provided the bullet enters the cranial cavity, unlike a center of mass shot on a 200 pound man. This is a marksmanship problem not a ballistic problem because the bear's head is deceivingly wide while the cranial cavity is narrow. And here comes the part that can make the pistol attractive in the bear defense roll. Recoil from the pistol is light and follow up shots can be fired quickly, something that cannot be said for a magnum revolver. Shoot at a bear's head with a .475 Linebaugh and miss the brain pan and he may be on you before you can recover for a second shot. Miss the brain pan with a 9mm and with luck you will hit it with a fast followup shot.
Now I'm not about to trade in my .44 for a 9mm but I also have a .357 on my ATC, and truth be told, there probably is little practical difference between the wound volume of the .357 and a 9mm when the target is an enclosed vessel like the brain.
As to the suitability of a 9mm for protection from wildlife, I'll come at this from a slightly different direction than some of the other posters. I think the 9mm can work, and here's why. If you need to shoot a bear with your pistol or revolver it is very close range problem, probably almost contact close. One does not open hostilities with a dangerous animal at long range with a handgun. The handgun is a last ditch weapon and is only used when you have nothing to loose. At very close range the bullet is at it's greatest velocity and will produce the deepest wound channel. The part of the bear that is closest to the shooter is the head, and it is the head that is the target. Aim at the head behind the eyes and ahead of the ears, within the width of the snout. While not requiring master marksmanship, the target will be in motion, and due to the circumstances the shot is demanding and can only be pulled off by a very cool hand. The target weight, that is the weight of the bear's head rather than it's total body weight, even on a very big bear, will not exceed 200 pounds. Even those of us who dislike the 9mm must concede that it is capable of good penetration on a 200 pound target.
The cranial cavity does not respond well to high velocity projectiles, and the results of a gun shot wound from even a low powered cartridge typically chambered in a service pistol will produce an immediate effect, provided the bullet enters the cranial cavity, unlike a center of mass shot on a 200 pound man. This is a marksmanship problem not a ballistic problem because the bear's head is deceivingly wide while the cranial cavity is narrow. And here comes the part that can make the pistol attractive in the bear defense roll. Recoil from the pistol is light and follow up shots can be fired quickly, something that cannot be said for a magnum revolver. Shoot at a bear's head with a .475 Linebaugh and miss the brain pan and he may be on you before you can recover for a second shot. Miss the brain pan with a 9mm and with luck you will hit it with a fast followup shot.
Now I'm not about to trade in my .44 for a 9mm but I also have a .357 on my ATC, and truth be told, there probably is little practical difference between the wound volume of the .357 and a 9mm when the target is an enclosed vessel like the brain.
Well, lots of cops/military use 9mm. It will indeed kill a bear. I had a conversation with an LEO at my range. He used his .40 on a large black bear and emptied 2 mags in it with no immediate effect. Due that he was going for its vitals. It probably died from shock and blood loss a minute later. A minute is a long time in a bear attack mind you.
Personally, i go for head shots on bears. Its an instant drop...and i carry nothing less than a 12 guage in the bush. Boomer above is right.
Personally, i go for head shots on bears. Its an instant drop...and i carry nothing less than a 12 guage in the bush. Boomer above is right.
Head shot and a charging bear, LOL!!! Good luck. How many of you that said that have really trained at doing that??? A bear can cover 30 yards in about 3 seconds and you would barely have time to draw your 9mm and get one shot, better make it count. I think a person would be a fool to take a 9mm for protection in the bush if you intended it to stop a black bear.
There is also a BIGGER bear out there too and a 9mm would do you a damn good against a grizzly.
THere is a reason people that have ATC's carry 44mags and 454's, cause they do the job on the FIRST shot...
There is also a BIGGER bear out there too and a 9mm would do you a damn good against a grizzly.
THere is a reason people that have ATC's carry 44mags and 454's, cause they do the job on the FIRST shot...
Big JD-From the hills
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatchewan.
I wouldn't count on any cartridge in a handgun to stop a bear on the first shot unless it was a cns hit... Sure a 454 may be allot better but still a .45 hole through a lung isn't going to stop it, unless it takes out the spine on the way out. A 9mm with a 147 grain flat point fmj's is allot better than nothing. If your comfortable with your skill with the 9mm... sure beats an unfamiliar hand cannon.
Sure a 9mm in better than nothing if you happened to find one on the ground when you see a bear but you PLANNING on a 9mm to save your life and brought it with you before you went into the woods,. I think it's a stupid idea to take a 9mm for that purpose.
Now I do not have my ATC but I do believe that you have to qualify with said pistol here in Canada and a part of that is training with it so it wouldn't be an unfamiliar hand cannon.
Now I do not have my ATC but I do believe that you have to qualify with said pistol here in Canada and a part of that is training with it so it wouldn't be an unfamiliar hand cannon.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Well I do, and so should anyone who carries a handgun for protection from wildlife.
A body shot on an adrenalin charged bear at close range with a magnum revolver cannot be counted on to save you. The correct thing to do is to wait until you can make a stopping shot. This requires a brain or spine shot. A spine shot is a chancy thing, so that leaves the brain shot. To stop a bear by breaking a big bone requires the use of a powerful rifle, and I am unwilling to trust a even big bore revolver to do this on demand. I also want manageable recoil from a normal sized gun. I am carrying a handgun because it is small and light enough to forget until I need it, so when working I want a short barrel and no more that 42 ounces of bulk.
As the bear closes, it is the head that will get to you first, and it is the head that will have your attention. This is not a hunting scenario where the head shot is very often a low percentage shot that most often results in wounded game. This is shooting to save your life, and as such it requires a different technique. Why shoot at an 800 pound body when you can shoot at a 200 pound head? The range will be contact close, you just have to stay cool and think. If you panic and blaze away, chances are you will die or at the very least suffer serious injury.
