9mm luger and parabellum...difference????

604

604

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hi guys! a newbie with a question...
what is the difference, if any with 9mm lugers and 9mm parabellums? some ammo sites i've been to lead me to understand that they are the same bullet with a change of names from the old para to the new luger.but others make it sound like they are different, so could someone please help out and give me some info on this question. thanks in advance
 
604 said:
hi guys! a newbie with a question...
what is the difference, if any with 9mm lugers and 9mm parabellums? some ammo sites i've been to lead me to understand that they are the same bullet with a change of names from the old para to the new luger.but others make it sound like they are different, so could someone please help out and give me some info on this question. thanks in advance
Click to expand...

9mm luger and 9mm parabellum are the exact same round. All of my reloading manuals treat them as the same...
 
Eos comment about the Glisenti matches what I know from reading Cartridges of the World.
I had not heard what Icefire says about the 9x19 NATO specs being higher. In fact, with some nato countries using pre-nato guns, I rather doubt it.

But yes, all the rounds on that list of Lefty #### have the same case dimensions
 
9mm Luger (SAAMI standard = 35,000 psi. SAAMI +P = 38,500 psi).

For example, the earliest version of M882 (9mm NATO, Ball) was intended for the Beretta M9; it is nominally a 124gr load with a muzzle velocity of 1,300 fps. The actual specs give the velocity as 1,263 at 15 feet and a maximum peak pressure of 36,250 psi. A comparable cartridge for the M3 SMG gives a maximum peak pressure of 43,000 psi.
Click to expand...
 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In Firearms Chambered For [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]9mm Luger (Parabellum) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Do Not Use These Cartridges [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]9mm NATO (Military

http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm

[/FONT]
 
Icefire said:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In Firearms Chambered For [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]9mm Luger (Parabellum) [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Do Not Use These Cartridges [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]9mm NATO (Military

http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm

[/FONT]
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So its ok to fire 9mm nato in a 60 year old inglis high power but not a brand new civilian one? ummmm, might want to recheck that.

9mm luger is the north american head stamp for what is properly 9mm parabellum. The original military load was closer to the nato standard than todays comerical ammo.
 
ok sorry guys like i said a newbie here, a little lost on all the ammo jargon. the real reason iwas asking this, is that i just bought a SIG P226 and picking it up on friday. so its fine to use Lugers in the SIG P226,right? cuz the guy at reliable said it was a SIG 226 "para" . it got me worrying abit cuz i got a stock pile of Lugers, it would suck if i needed to pick up "paras"
 
I don't think there's a problem between Para and Luger, but I think there is a concern with NATO rounds.
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but is it safe to shoot 7.62 NATO out of a .308 boltgun? Vice versa?

-Rohann
 
I recall reading that the INGLIS version of the Hi-Power was designed to handle the higher pressure Sten gun ammo.
So, yes, even if the current 9mm Nato ammo is slightly higher than other non-Nato spec ammo, the inglis should handle it all safely.
As for other guns using Nato ammo, I will accept Icefires posts.
 
Rohann said:
I don't think there's a problem between Para and Luger, but I think there is a concern with NATO rounds.
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but is it safe to shoot 7.62 NATO out of a .308 boltgun? Vice versa?

-Rohann
Click to expand...
you'll get both yes and no answers to that one- it really depends on how the gun is throated and what gun it is- 7.62 is SUPPOSED to be a hair longer than 308 and loaded to higher pressures, but my old savage 99 is chambered 308 and handles the nato loads just fine, thank you very much
 
Rohann - Some surplus has a metal core. May beat up your new barrel if you believe in a break in period for a new barrel.

Might be best to go with some fmj to begin with and clean it often when shooting the first 20 or so rounds.

You can go 7.62 in a .308 but have to watch going 308 in a 7.62. Bullet wight and overall length are issues you must consider.

This link is a good resource for some of your questions. Link

604 - Your good to go on pretty much anything that says 9mm in this country. If your unsure ask someone.

D_
 
in a brand new rifle i wouldn't even consider 7.62 surplus- gun is too valuable- factory loads, then reloads, then surplus for me- but i don't believe in barrel break-in either
 
tootall said:
I recall reading that the INGLIS version of the Hi-Power was designed to handle the higher pressure Sten gun ammo.
So, yes, even if the current 9mm Nato ammo is slightly higher than other non-Nato spec ammo, the inglis should handle it all safely.
As for other guns using Nato ammo, I will accept Icefires posts.
Click to expand...


Except all glocks are designed to handle it as well, so they should be alright.

Now that I think about it, any pistol currently acceptable as nato standard is rated for it. I don't know the whole list but it includes XD's, berreta's, glocks and high powers for a few. +P+ 9mm is loaded to nato standards and I believe most police agencies in the states issue this power level......
 
Thanks guys. I might just go with factory rounds, as I wouldn't like any damage to come to the barrel, but I don't want to spend $1 a box. Is there any cheap-ish FMJ ammo that isn't surplus? And in regard to barrel break in, is it something that needs to be done? I know there's no reason to do it with custom rifles, but isn't it a good idea to just shoot a bit at least with factory ammo or something cheap before using reloads?

-Rohann
 
This is the same issue as 7.62 NATO/5.56 NATO in 308/223 guns. Yes, you can do it. No, SAAMI (the governing standards body for civilian arms) will not guarantee that it will work, simply because the NATO rounds aren't defined by SAAMI, and aren't bound by SAAMI pressure specs and measurement methodologies.

Basically, it's a lawyer issue more than a real danger. Yes, the rounds have slightly different specs, no, they cannot be compared apples-to-apples. Nevertheless, the specs are so close to each other that you're probably OK. But if you do it, and in the extremely unlikely event that your gun explodes, their asses are covered. No lawsuit for you.

And of course, when dealing with old/antique guns it's always best to avoid modern loads.
 
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